[Sigia-l] Unsubscribe
Wilson, Dana
dana.wilson at intel.com
Mon Mar 22 12:02:10 EST 2004
-----Original Message-----
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Of sigia-l-request at asis.org
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:01 AM
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Subject: Sigia-l digest, Vol 1 #876 - 8 msgs
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Searchable list archive: http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/
Today's Topics:
1. COMM: Re: [Sigia-l] community (Chris Chandler)
2. Re: COMM: Re: [Sigia-l] community (Listera)
3. RE: COMM: Re: [Sigia-l] community (Russ Unger)
4. RE: Sketchy Information (Lyle_Kantrovich at cargill.com)
5. Research about closeness of content and navigation? (Marius van
Dam)
6. Re: Research about closeness of content and navigation?
(ToddR.Warfel)
7. Hello & Is anyone using Schemalogic: metadata management?
(Alexandra Proserpio)
8. Re: The Heart of IA (david_fiorito at Vanguard.com)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: "Chris Chandler" <chrischandler67 at earthlink.net>
To: "CD Evans" <clifton at infostyling.com>, "SIGIA" <sigia-l at asis.org>
Subject: COMM: Re: [Sigia-l] community
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:11:46 -0800
"CD Evans" wrote:
> We're not a bunch of idiots. We'd just like to make better systems. We
> all have our own specialization, but as we have found they can
> sometimes be at odds with each other. That doesn't mean we have to
take
> sides though. We can act like adults and, perhaps, keep topics to
> 'plain-english'?
In plain english, "community" doesn't mean everyone gets along.
When I studied Urban Planning, the radical elders of my school preached
the virtues of "community-based planning" (a distant relative of UCD) as
a correction to the long history of technocratic arrogance in the field,
which, to a large extent was valuable and made sense.
However, as I began to have direct experiences with local community
organizations throughout southern california, I came to appreciate the
"darkside" to the myth of community.
The communities, which were supposed to guide the planning process, were
fractured and fractious no matter how you drew the boundary: those who
lived in a particular area; those who came together to support or oppose
a particular issue; local planning boards; the community of the school,
etc etc at whatever scale you happened to examine -- there were
political divisions between group members. They bickered constantly
amongst themselves, and often IMO, mis-represented the opinions of the
most vocal or forceful among them as the unified voice of the
"community."
Looking at it another way: My mother lives in Greencastle Indianna. She
loves her small town community, but she dislikes some of her neighbors,
hates the gossiping in the checkout at the grocery, and disagrees
vehemently with the town's policy of cutting down old trees.
In plain english, "community" also implies being stuck together with
people you may not like. This is not a bad thing!
Perhaps because I've spent a lot of time recently in Celebration
Florida[1], I would much rather put up with a bit of bickering and
honest disagreements, than I would limitations on people's speech.
I do think that it is not only polite, but beneficial to the community
for people to add metadata to the Subject line giving an indication of
what lies within. Based on your message, I propose that messages about
the list be prefaced COMM, for community.
-cc
[1] http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Celebration,%20Florida
--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:44:04 -0500
From: Listera <listera at rcn.com>
Subject: Re: COMM: Re: [Sigia-l] community
To: SIGIA-L <sigia-l at asis.org>
"Chris Chandler" wrote:
> I do think that it is not only polite, but beneficial to the community
> for people to add metadata to the Subject line giving an indication of
> what lies within. Based on your message, I propose that messages about
> the list be prefaced COMM, for community.
I don't have any opinion on whether this is a good thing or not, other
than
noting that in my 15 years online I haven't seen it work consistently or
effectively for any stretch of time on any list/community I followed. (I
don't mind seeing an [ADV] for the <shameless plug> type of posts, for
instance.) The funny thing is that I almost skipped this post as being a
'COMMercial' message (which would have been a pity as I ended up liking
its
content). For others, COMM may connote COMMunications, etc.
Ziya
Nullius in Verba
--__--__--
Message: 3
From: "Russ Unger" <russ at bluechromedesign.com>
To: <sigia-l at asis.org>
Subject: RE: COMM: Re: [Sigia-l] community
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:49:26 -0600
I second Ziya's thoughts and will only add that adding all of prefacing
tends to add a lot of moderating and coaching to new users--I mean, does
anyone really read all the instructions to anything anymore? It sounds
like a great notion, but also sounds like it carries a lot of overhead
that, ultimately, someone will have to be responsible for and a lot of
people will inadvertantly violate. I'm sure we're not all only on this
particular list, which means a learning curve for this list, etc...
Hell, it's still hard enough to remember to hit 'reply all' and then
delete out the original posters email to get the message to go back to
the list.
Russ
PS - If you can answer "yes" to that, I encourage you to think about the
friend/relative who still has (gasp) a VCR and its got a flashing 12:00
on it.
> > I do think that it is not only polite, but beneficial to
> the community
> > for people to add metadata to the Subject line giving an
> indication of
> > what lies within. Based on your message, I propose that
> messages about
> > the list be prefaced COMM, for community.
>
> I don't have any opinion on whether this is a good thing or
> not, other than
> noting that in my 15 years online I haven't seen it work
> consistently or
> effectively for any stretch of time on any list/community I
> followed. (I
> don't mind seeing an [ADV] for the <shameless plug> type of posts, for
> instance.) The funny thing is that I almost skipped this post
> as being a
> 'COMMercial' message (which would have been a pity as I ended
> up liking its
> content). For others, COMM may connote COMMunications, etc.
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:32:32 -0600
Subject: RE: [Sigia-l] Sketchy Information
From: Lyle_Kantrovich at cargill.com
To: sigia-l at asis.org
A) Graphical searches (usually) DON'T show HOW different categories and
types of information relate to each other. - RATHER, they show HOW
RELATED things are along a spectrum, but not necessarily HOW or WHY they
are related.
B) The article says "The hard part is finding a way of presenting the
information without requiring the user to get a degree in how to use
the interface." I'd say the "hard part" is understanding how the user
want to view/consume the information - and THEN whether a "graphical"
presentation is better than a list, tabular or other type of
presentation is the best way to present results.
Try searching Gnooks.com for "Shakespeare" - or some other author. Does
it help you find *books* you'd like to read? No. It helps you find
*similar authors* (or authors that people who liked Shakespeare liked) -
there's not way to get from an author to a list of books, nor a way to
find reviews or recommendations on which of that author's books would be
most like a Shakespeare book you liked... Amazon works much better for
this kind of thing, and requires no *whiz-bang* graphical
representation. Try this for example:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0517053616/qid=1079887141/
sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-0356962-2591870?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
This is not to say that we shouldn't explore graphical results. They
can be great - especially when trying to represent spatial differences
in results - for example, I love searching for local restaurants and
having them displayed on a map (e.g. on local.google.com).
Regards,
Lyle
----
Lyle Kantrovich
User Experience Architect
Croc O' Lyle - Personal Commentary on usability, information
architecture and design.
http://crocolyle.blogspot.com/
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
- Leonardo da Vinci
-----Original Message-----
From: boniface_lau at compuserve.com [mailto:boniface_lau at compuserve.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 12:02 PM
To: sigia-l at mail.asis.org
Subject: [Sigia-l] Sketchy Information
Sketchy Information: Will graphical search interfaces make a picture
worth a thousand links
http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/print_version/wo_sherman031904.
asp
SI> Rather than deliver search results as a long roster of links,
SI> graphical searches show how different categories and types of
SI> information relate to each other. The hard part is finding a way
SI> of presenting the information without requiring the user to get a
SI> degree in how to use the interface.
[...]
SI> But visualization front ends are not magic solutions for those who
SI> want to find something; a combination of text and Boolean commands
SI> can quickly resolve a complex search. Consider, for instance, a
SI> wine shopper searching for an Australian merlot with a hint of oak
SI> for $7.99. Using visualization would likely take multiple steps to
SI> move through the screens of information. And finding the best
SI> combination of representation and data organization can be tough.
Boniface
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--__--__--
Message: 5
To: sigia-l at asis.org
From: Marius van Dam <mvandam at splandigo.nl>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:04:21 +0100
Subject: [Sigia-l] Research about closeness of content and navigation?
Dear IA's,
When I just signed up I saw some discussion about the manners of the
people on the list, and someone suggested that every newcomer would be
allowed to ask three stupid questions. If you consider my questions
stupid, please think of that! :)
I'm working on a paper which talks about the role of writers in the
creation of website, and the role of the characteristics of the
hyperlink and multi-linearity in trying to shape a coherent online
experience.
My question is if people know of some relevant texts on the following
topics:
- research which deals with users preference of either a separation of
content and navigation or a convergence of the two.
- the concept of coherence and how it relates to web pages linked
together. (if this makes sense: I'm trying to find out all the ways in
which (the content of) the nodes that build up an experience for the
user are connected, but especially those that reside in written words)
I'd also like to ask you people another question that's relevant to me:
In your company, how is the text in a website created? In what phases,
and by whom?
(you can answer off-list if you want)
Any other comments (for instance, if you have an opinion about the
relevance of the subject) are also welcome.
Thanks! It would really help me a lot.
Marius
PS: This is my first message to this list. I'm a student of 'Digital
Media Design' from the Netherlands, and hopefully graduating in three
months. After that I'll continue building our web company of four,
called Splandigo. I'm the (big)ia person in the team.
--__--__--
Message: 6
To: SIGIA-L <sigia-l at asis.org>
From: Todd R.Warfel <lists at mk27.com>
Subject: Re: [Sigia-l] Research about closeness of content and
navigation?
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:07:49 -0500
On Mar 21, 2004, at 7:04 AM, Marius van Dam wrote:
> My question is if people know of some relevant texts on the following
> topics:
> - research which deals with users preference of either a separation
> of content and navigation or a convergence of the two.
Not sure if I understand the question properly or not, but I'll give an
example of something that might relate...
Last year, we finished up a few educational/scientific sites and
applications that utilized a mix of standard navigation (e.g. top,
margin area) and navigation that was embedded in the body of the text.
We tested this pretty extensively and found that roughly 50% of users
used the standard navigation for wayfinding and 50% used the embedded.
There didn't seem to be any specific pattern in the demographic (e.g.
women vs. men, adults vs. teens, education level). So, we'd like to do
some more research on it. We do have our theories as to why they chose
one over the other, but again, we'll need some more research first.
We did notice particular trends, like those who used the embedded
navigation tended to not notice the local navigation (e.g. in the
margins). Also, those who used the embedded navigation didn't use the
browser's back button to navigate back, they tended to use the built in
"back" button.
But in our experience and research, both are beneficial.
> - the concept of coherence and how it relates to web pages linked
> together. (if this makes sense: I'm trying to find out all the ways in
> which (the content of) the nodes that build up an experience for the
> user are connected, but especially those that reside in written words)
Could you explain this a bit more?
Cheers!
Todd R. Warfel
User Experience Architect
MessageFirst | making products easier to use
--------------------------------------
Contact Info
voice: (607) 339-9640
email: twarfel at messagefirst.com
web: www.messagefirst.com
aim: twarfel at mac.com
--------------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.
Cheers!
Todd R. Warfel
User Experience Architect
MessageFirst | making products easier to use
--------------------------------------
Contact Info
voice: (607) 339-9640
email: twarfel at messagefirst.com
web: www.messagefirst.com
aim: twarfel at mac.com
--------------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.
--__--__--
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:12:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Alexandra Proserpio <aprose1996 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: aprose1996 at yahoo.com
To: sigia-l at asis.org
Subject: [Sigia-l] Hello & Is anyone using Schemalogic: metadata
management?
Hello! Allow me to first introduce myself. I'm
Alexandra; my background is in Library Science. I work
at Sandia National Labs in New Mexico, where I work on
content analysis, controlled vocabularies and
metadata. I've been a lurker for a long time and have
found this list to be quite valuable.
Is anyone using the schema integration/metadata
management product from Schemalogic? If so, I'd like
to hear more about your experiences.
Thanks
Alexandra
Alexandra M. Proserpio
aprose1996 at yahoo.com
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--__--__--
Message: 8
To: Peter Merholz <peterme at peterme.com>
Cc: sigia-l at asis.org, sigia-l-admin at asis.org
Subject: Re: [Sigia-l] The Heart of IA
From: david_fiorito at Vanguard.com
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:01:03 -0500
Cool. Did you happen to catch the presentation that Richard Dalton and
I
put together for the IA Summit? In that presentation we explored the
interplay of content and navigation, and how navigation manifests the
relationships between content elements on a site. It sounds like some
of
your thinking and our presentation agree rather nicely.
I will re-read your blog post but it would seem our thinking on this
matter is very similar.
Cheers,
Dave
Peter Merholz <peterme at peterme.com>
Sent by: sigia-l-admin at asis.org
03/19/2004 04:25 PM
To: sigia-l at asis.org
cc: (bcc: David Fiorito/IT/VGI)
Subject: Re: [Sigia-l] The Heart of IA
David said:
> As we worked
> through all of the facets of navigation it became clear to everyone
> that
> designing navigation is not just about HCI. Designing navigation is
> about
> the manifestation of semantic relationships as sets of hyperlinks.
I agree. Admittedly, it's hard to put your finger on it. I think I
addressed the issue of the semantics of navigation design in my latest
post on peterme.com
http://www.peterme.com/archives/000296.html
It ends:
"Navigation design isn't just about finding things -- it imbues meaning
based on the contexts it provides."
--peter
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