Ranking Web (Webometrics) of Universities
Isidro F. Aguillo
isidro.aguillo at CCHS.CSIC.ES
Fri Aug 31 16:08:30 EDT 2012
Quoting Yves Gingras:
> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
>
> You write:
>
> “Even more interesting we are able to identify reasons (web bad practices)
> for major discrepancies. And we can offer advice and our results are useful
> for many universities”.
>
> But this is obviously a tautology based oin the performative aspect of the
> indicator!
Thanks. This is easy: Then, what is the difference with "publish or perish"?
> You are in fact saying: “1) I define performance with the presence on the
> web; 2) your institution is not there or badly ranked, then 3) get a better
> web and you will be defined as having a better “performance”... It is
> exactly liked rankings based on books in college libraries: we do not know
> if that means the college is really better than any other but DO buy books
> if your college is badly ranked!
This is a misunderstanding. We are NOT measuring web design nor usability. We are measuring academic contents produced by faculty members, researchers or technicians and their impact in a truly global huge audience. It is not enough to publish on the web, in order to receive links these contents should be good, useful or interesting independently of their appearance.
> I fail to see how this is a real discovery or contribution. It is exactly
> like a marketing company saying what color of a tie you should wear to pass
> on TV.
Sorry? So, if we analyze your list of papers we are making science but if we consider your academic webpages, are we making "marketing"?
> We are far from measuring specific, as opposed to “overall” (whatever that
> means) performance of an institution. Using a mix of heterogeneous
> indicators will always permit one to say that the mix bag represent the
> “overall” activity of an institution. It is like saying that the sum of
> temperature and humidity gives the “overall weather” as opposed to
> temperature.
Temperature: So, do you prefer measuring "specific" movement of millions of molecules in a glass of water than applying an "overall" thermometer. This a good example of what an INDICATOR is.
And, please do not forget the empirical results.
Best,
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Yves
>
>
>
> Le 31/08/12 13:18, « Isidro F. Aguillo » <isidro.aguillo at cchs.csic.es> a
> écrit :
>
>> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
>> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html Quoting Yves Gingras:
>>
>>> > Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
>>> > http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
>>> >
>>> > The vagueness of the indicator is here componded by the arbitrary
>>> > ponderation: why 50%? Why not 10% for links and 80% for citations?
>>
>> The ponderation is based in a model following a ratio 1:1 between
>> activity and
>> impact, so 50% for each. Basically it is he same ratio that
>> everybody uses in
>> bibliometrics between papers and citations.
>>
>>
>> This just
>>> > confirms that a composite indicator of heterogeneous measures has no
>>> > definite meaning. Also: is being ³linked to² or being ³visited by² many
>>> > people really measuring something definite?
>>
>> Never, in no place we have defended the use of visits for the same reasons
>> most of the people does not use journal circulation for scientific
>> evaluation.
>>
>> Linking is an intellectual action and if you are linking academic
>> contents is
>> because they are interesting or useful according to your criteria,
>> If you are
>> a scientist the motivations for linking are not far different that the ones
>> for citing.
>>
>>
>> It seems here that numbers are
>>> > used because they are available even though nobody knows what they mean
>>> > exactly. We should strive to build indicators the meaning of which we
>>> > control to make sure we can then understand they variation over time: we
>>> > know a thermometer measures temperature and not humidity (for
>>> which we need
>>> > a hygrometer) but if we we add (or multiply) one with the other we any
>>> > precise informatino on temperature...
>>
>> My hypothesis is that our "thermometer" is able to measure overall
>> university
>> performance. The empirical results correlate highly with other rankings
>> including bibliometric ones; Harvard, MIT, Standford in top, Cambridge,
>> Oxford, ETH Zurich heading Europe, Tokyo first in Asia or Sao Paulo
>> first for
>> Latinamerica.
>>
>> Even more interesting we are able to identify reasons (web bad
>> practices) for
>> major discrepancies. And we can offer advice and our results are useful for
>> many universities.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>> > Best regards
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Yves Gingras
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Le 31/08/12 11:39, « Isidro F. Aguillo » <isidro.aguillo at CCHS.CSIC.ES> a
>>> > écrit :
>>> >
>>>> >> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
>>>> >> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
>>>> >> Dear Loet:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Not sure. My first candidate is the number of webeditors and the
>>>> university
>>>> >> policies about contributors. 1000s scholars building rich
>>>> personal pages
>>>> are
>>>> >> far more effective than a well paid webmaster.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Also, do not forget that web publications is only 50% of the total.
>>>> >> The other
>>>> >> 50% is impact or link visibility, ie the number of inlinks you received
>>>> that
>>>> >> in the case of top universities means thousands of people linking
>>>> >> ("citing" a
>>>> >> webpage) to the university webdomain.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Best,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> El 31/08/2012 16:32, Loet Leydesdorff escribió:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
>>>>> >>> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html Re:
>>>>> [SIGMETRICS] Ranking
> Web
>>>>> >>> (Webometrics) of Universities
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Dear Isidro,
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Yet, the web-ranks may (partially) correlate with the budgets of the
>>>>> >>> webmasters. J
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Could you test this?
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Best,
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Loet
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> From: ASIS&T Special Interest Group on Metrics
>>>>> >>> [mailto:SIGMETRICS at LISTSERV.UTK.EDU] On Behalf Of Isidro F. Aguillo
>>>>> >>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 4:29 PM
>>>>> >>> To: SIGMETRICS at LISTSERV.UTK.EDU
>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [SIGMETRICS] Ranking Web (Webometrics) of Universities
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
>>>>> >>> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
>>>>> >>> <http://web.utk.edu/%7Egwhitney/sigmetrics.html>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Dear Yves:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> There is no a single answer, but many possible candidate answers:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> - Scientific discoveries should be communicated, preferably not
>>>>> >>> only to the
>>>>> >>> scientists working at rich western organizations. Today Web
>>>>> is the most
>>>>> >>> universal and cheaper scholarly communication tool. Ranking MEASURES
> the
>>>>> >>> amount of new knowledge generated and how much is published
>>>>> in an open
>>>>> >>> format.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> - Most of the scientists are not only producing papers in formal
>>>>> >>> international journals, but their activities are richer and
>>>>> >>> diverse. Ranking
>>>>> >>> MEASURES all the outputs, formal and informal, if they
>>>>> publish them on
> the
>>>>> >>> Web.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> - Universities (specially public ones) are investing a lot, not only
> in
>>>>> >>> research, but in other different missions. For example promoting
>>>>> distance
>>>>> >>> learning (through web platforms), supplying information about their
>>>>> >>> governance (transparency), attracting talented students and
>>>>> prestigious
>>>>> >>> professors through internationalization of their web contents,
>>>>> supplying
>>>>> >>> information of their technological developments in their specialized
> web
>>>>> >>> portals and so on. Ranking MEASURES all these different activities if
>>>>> they
>>>>> >>> are making public in the Web.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> These are only a few examples.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> El 31/08/2012 15:55, Yves Gingras escribió:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
>>>>>> >>>> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
>>>>>> >>>> <http://web.utk.edu/%7Egwhitney/sigmetrics.html> These
>>>>>> results show
> that
>>>>>> >>>> the ³indicator² is dubious and does not really indicate anything
>>>>>> >>>> specific...
>>>>>> >>>> Instead of writing that the use of web domains is
>>>>>> ³penalizing their
>>>>>> >>>> position in the Ranking², one should instead conclude that using
>>>>>> >>>> web domains
>>>>>> >>>> to ³rank² institutions is dubious since it misrepresent the
>>>>>> >>>> reality: should
>>>>>> >>>> institutions adapt to indicators OR should indicators be adapted to
> the
>>>>>> >>>> reality of institutions???... Before multiplying ³indicators² maybe
> one
>>>>>> >>>> should first ask the basic question: ³what on earth does this thing
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> >>>> MEASURE?²
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Yves Gingras
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Le 31/08/12 05:02, « Isidro F. Aguillo »
>>>>>> <isidro.aguillo at CCHS.CSIC.ES>
>>>>>> >>>> <mailto:isidro.aguillo at CCHS.CSIC.ES> a écrit :
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
>>>>>> >>>> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
>>>>>> >>>> <http://web.utk.edu/%7Egwhitney/sigmetrics.html>
>>>>>> >>>> El 31/08/2012 10:31, Clement Levallois escribió:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
>>>>>> >>>> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
>>>>>> >>>> <http://web.utk.edu/%7Egwhitney/sigmetrics.html>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Interesting!
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> In the ranking for Europe, not a single French university in the
>>>>>> >>>> 100 first?
>>>>>> >>>> Wow.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> (see here:
>>>>>> http://www.webometrics.info/en/Ranking_Europe/European_Union)
>>>>>> >>>> <http://www.webometrics.info/en/Ranking_Europe/European_Union%29>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Best,
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Clement
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Clement Levallois, PhD
>>>>>> >>>> Erasmus University Rotterdam
>>>>>> >>>> The Netherlands
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> pro website
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.erim.eur.nl/ERIM/People/Person_Details?p_aff_id=4321>
>>>>>> /
>>>>>> >>>> personal website <http://www.clementlevallois.net/>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> twitter and skype: @seinecle
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Discover the NESSHI project: http://www.nesshi.eu
>>>>>> <http://www.nesshi.eu/>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Dear all:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> You can check the Excellence indicator (papers in the 10% top
>>>>>> >>>> cited) that
>>>>>> >>>> Paris 6 is 28th and Paris XI is 98th so the reasons for the delayed
>>>>>> ranks
>>>>>> >>>> are related to the web presence. Language is an important issue as
>>>>>> >>>> English-speaking countries are clearly over-represented but
>>>>>> it is not
> the
>>>>>> >>>> only reason. Perhaps interesting to this list is that the
>>>>>> >>>> commitment to open
>>>>>> >>>> access is limited. You can check the performance of the French
>>>>>> university
>>>>>> >>>> repositories here:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> http://repositories.webometrics.info/en/Europe/France
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> It is very surprising that in some cases they have surrendered
>>>>>> their own
>>>>>> >>>> web domains in their "institutional" repositories. A few examples:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> École Polytechnique
>>>>>> http://hal-polytechnique.archives-ouvertes.fr/
>>>>>> >>>> Université Paris 1 Panthéon Sorbonne
>>>>>> >>>> http://hal-paris1.archives-ouvertes.fr/
>>>>>> >>>> École Mines ParisTech http://hal-ensmp.archives-ouvertes.fr/
>>>>>> >>>> Université de Nice Sophia Antipolis
>>>>>> >>>> http://hal-unice.archives-ouvertes.fr/
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Of course this practice is penalizing their position in the
>>>>>> Ranking.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Best,
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Yves Gingras
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Professeur
>>>>>> >>>> Département d'histoire
>>>>>> >>>> Centre interuniversitaire de recherche
>>>>>> >>>> sur la science et la technologie (CIRST)
>>>>>> >>>> Chaire de recherche du Canada en histoire
>>>>>> >>>> et sociologie des sciences
>>>>>> >>>> Observatoire des sciences et des technologies (OST)
>>>>>> >>>> UQAM
>>>>>> >>>> C.P. 8888, Succ. Centre-Ville
>>>>>> >>>> Montréal, Québec
>>>>>> >>>> Canada, H3C 3P8
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Tel: (514)-987-3000-7053
>>>>>> >>>> Fax: (514)-987-7726
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> http://www.chss.uqam.ca
>>>>>> >>>> http://www.cirst.uqam.ca
>>>>>> >>>> http://www.ost.uqam.ca
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Yves Gingras
>>> >
>>> > Professeur
>>> > Département d'histoire
>>> > Centre interuniversitaire de recherche
>>> > sur la science et la technologie (CIRST)
>>> > Chaire de recherche du Canada en histoire
>>> > et sociologie des sciences
>>> > Observatoire des sciences et des technologies (OST)
>>> > UQAM
>>> > C.P. 8888, Succ. Centre-Ville
>>> > Montréal, Québec
>>> > Canada, H3C 3P8
>>> >
>>> > Tel: (514)-987-3000-7053
>>> > Fax: (514)-987-7726
>>> >
>>> > http://www.chss.uqam.ca
>>> > http://www.cirst.uqam.ca
>>> > http://www.ost.uqam.ca
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Yves Gingras
>
> Professeur
> Département d'histoire
> Centre interuniversitaire de recherche
> sur la science et la technologie (CIRST)
> Chaire de recherche du Canada en histoire
> et sociologie des sciences
> Observatoire des sciences et des technologies (OST)
> UQAM
> C.P. 8888, Succ. Centre-Ville
> Montréal, Québec
> Canada, H3C 3P8
>
> Tel: (514)-987-3000-7053
> Fax: (514)-987-7726
>
> http://www.chss.uqam.ca
> http://www.cirst.uqam.ca
> http://www.ost.uqam.ca
>
>
--
Isidro F. Aguillo, HonPhD
Cybermetrics Lab (3C1). CCHS - CSIC
Albasanz, 26-28. 28037 Madrid. Spain
isidro.aguillo @ cchs.csic.es
www. webometrics.info
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