[Sigmet-officers] Fwd: RE: SIGMETRICS mailing list
Jonathan Levitt
jonathan at levitt.net
Sat Dec 3 01:51:08 EST 2011
Dear all,
Stasa wrote “Does
anyone know whether any arrangements were made with Gretchen in the end.” I paste below the email of January 4 (and the
related threads) in which Gretchen wrote to me and Dock “I will be happy to
continue the listserv SIGMETRICS here at UTK.”
Gretchen wrote “I'll
kill SIGMET at the end of this calendar year.” This is a very dangerous threat that the SIG and informetrric
professionals must take very seriously. I
urge the SIG to take immediate action.
My suggestions are that
within the next few days a SIG officer: (a) thanks Gretchen for her and the UTK
past contribution and asks for her for immediate assurances that the SIGMETRICS
list will be maintained until we have found an alternative moderator and server
and (b) posts a message to the SIGMETRICS list asking for a new moderator and
home for the server.
Best,
Jonathan.
From:Jonathan Levitt [mailto:jonathan at levitt.net]
Sent: 05 January 2011 06:44
To: Gretchen Whitney
Cc: Richard Hill
Subject: RE: Metrics List
Hi Gretchen,
Many thanks for your rapid response and for offering to continue the listserv SIGMETRICS here at UTK. I am very pleased that you agree to our points.
Have a very good 2011.
Jonathan.
--- On Tue, 4/1/11, Gretchen Whitney <gwhitney at utk.edu> wrote:
From: Gretchen Whitney <gwhitney at utk.edu>
Subject: RE: Metrics List
To: "Jonathan Levitt" <jonathan at levitt.net>
Cc: "Richard Hill" <rhill at asis.org>
Date: Tuesday, 4 January, 2011, 23:44
Greetings,
Thanks for forwarding Dietmar's msg - I did not receive
it. Thank you
for your good thoughts - they are most appreciated.
I will be happy to continue the listserv SIGMETRICS here at
UTK. I
agree with your points - (a) I believe that the membership of the list
should be beyond ASIST members. SIGMET extends the awareness of ASIST
to
the world. (b) The current membership of 710 readers will not be
affected
in any way. (c) The site and software are indeed most appropriate for a
variety of reasons. And an (good heavens!) nearly eleven years of an
archive has to be worth something to the readers.
Thanks for your good thoughts.
--gw.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Gretchen Whitney, PhD, Retired
School of Information Sciences
University of Tennessee, Knoxville TN 37996 USA
gwhitney at utk.edu
http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/
jESSE:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/jesse.html
SIGMETRICS:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2011, Jonathan Levitt wrote:
> Hi Dick and Gretchen,
>
> I have now received feedback from other officers. We are concerned
that
>Gretchen did not receive Dietmarÿÿs email, so paste it at the end of this
>email.
>
> We would very much like Gretchen to continue as moderator but, if this
>is not possible, for the transfer to be seamless. In particular:
(a) we
>donÿÿt want the membership of this list to be confined to ASIST members;
>(b) are keen for the members of the list and archives not to be affected;
>(c) think that site and software would be the logical choice.
>
> Jonathan.
>
> Proposal for a Full Metrics SIG in ASIST
> Thursday, 14 October, 2010 16:42
> From:
> "Dietmar Wolfram" <dwolfram at uwm.edu>
> Add sender to Contacts
> To:
> gwhitney at UTK.EDU
> Cc:
> jonathan at levitt.net, smilojev at indiana.edu, amzoss at indiana.edu, barilaj at mail.biu.ac.il, sugimoto at indiana.edu, hleman at samhealth.org
> Dear Gretchen,
>
> As you may be aware, a group of ASIST members is hoping to elevate
SIGMETRICS from a virtual SIG to a full SIG. A proposal is being prepared in
the hopes of having it approved at this yearÿÿs ASIST annual meeting. The
group recognizes the SIGMETRICS list is a very valued part of the virtual
SIG. We would like to see the list continue to serve as the primary
communication outlet if and when the proposal is approved. Our group would
also like to acknowledge your role as moderator of the list and the
University of Tennessee as host. This is a role we wish to see continue.
Would you be willing to have your name included on the proposal as the
Moderator officer? Being listed as the Moderator officer would not alter
your current role as the list moderator or imply additional work.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Regards,
> Dietmar
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 24/12/10, Jonathan Levitt <jonathan at levitt.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jonathan Levitt <jonathan at levitt.net>
> Subject: RE: Metrics List
> To: "Richard Hill" <rhill at asis.org>, "Gretchen Whitney" <gwhitney at utk.edu>
> Date: Friday, 24 December, 2010, 11:25
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Gretchen and Dick,
>
> Gretchen, I am the Chair of SIG MET. Thanks to you both for
corresponding on this and for copying me in. You raise a number of
important issues. I will seek advice from the most active officers of
SIG MET and get back to you after the holidays.
>
> Happy holidays,
> Jonathan.
>
> --- On Fri, 24/12/10, Gretchen Whitney <gwhitney at utk.edu> wrote:
>
>
> From: Gretchen Whitney <gwhitney at utk.edu>
> Subject: RE: Metrics List
> To: "Richard Hill" <rhill at asis.org>
> Cc: jonathan at levitt.net
> Date: Friday, 24 December, 2010, 3:03
>
>
> Greetings,
> I thought that I had replied to this before, so I will
do again.
>
>> Gretchen, as far as I am concerned, and I have heard noting form
anyone to
>> the contrary, no one wants a change. I was really asking re:
your plans and
>> UTK's so we could do things in an orderly way.
>
> I would let the new SIG do their things their way. I will close
down
> SIGMET the end of the fiscal year, which will give them ample
opportunity
> to figure out how to resolve communications.
>
>> I am sure the SIG has not yet considered or selected a moderator,
sure that
>> the question has not even arisen, as you have been taken as a
"given."
>
> I really doubt this assertion about my being local dominatrix although I
> relish that name. I am interested in intellectual pursuits and not
when
> folks have gotten up from their naps and want to brush their teeth (ala
> facteBook and Twitter)
>
>>
>> The real technical questions are me getting the subscribe names and
>> preferences in an importable format, and trying also to import the
past
>> messages as an archive.
>
> It is one thing to import the subscribers names,and yet another to
import
> the archive.
>
> I'm more than willing to let you have the subscribers names.
>
> I am mulling over if I am willing to let you have the archives. I
did
> create them as a member of UTKSIS, in the name of ASIST, but I have been
> so very f*** as a member of UTKSIS. I'm leaning to have you have
them as
> long as you can preserve them as my work of art and my creation.
>
> --gw
>
>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
> Gretchen Whitney, PhD, Retired
> School of Information Sciences
> University of Tennessee, Knoxville TN 37996 USA
gwhitney at utk.edu
> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/
> jESSE:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/jesse.html
> SIGMETRICS:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>
>
>
> Not sure what Listserv's capabilities are there.
I
>> will check on Mailman and with our techie to see what e has to
suggest.
>>
>> And be assured, ASIS&T membership as never been a consideration
on these
>> lists. I remember when we started lists that SLA then kept all
except
>> regular members off its lists, not even corporate sponsors. I
thought that
>> an arrogant policy, leading to inbreeding, thinking that we have all
the
>> answers and important thoughts.
>>
>> I'll look at mailman's import capabilities and protocols and get
back to
>> you. I think it is desirable not to lose the archive of past
messages.
>>
>> Dick
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>> Richard B. Hill
>> Executive Director
>> American Society for Information Science and Technology
>> 1320 Fenwick Lane, Suite 510
>> Silver Spring, MD 20910
>> Fax: (301) 495-0810
>> Voice: (301) 495-0900
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gretchen Whitney [mailto:gwhitney at utk.edu]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 7:01 PM
>>> To: Richard Hill
>>> Cc: jonathan at levitt.net
>>> Subject: Re: Metrics List
>>>
>>> Greetings of the Holidays!
>>> I see the problem. The f2f SIG
needs to make its own decisions
>>> regarding how members communicate. SIGMET served its time,
and was an
>>> appropriate response to the culture in which it was created in
1999 - last
>>> century - when, as I recall, ASIST did not have the capability
to manage a
>>> virtual SIG. Eleven years. Now, ASIST does have that
capability.
>>> I would want to close down SIGMET as an
interesting part of ASIST
>>> history, and let the f2f SIG figure out how they want to
communicate.
>>> Gene Garfield was a major contributor and supporter of SIGMET,
and I need
>>> to communicate with him also as an author of this publication.
>>> I will simply consider this as another
publication/creative activity on
>>> my resume, which is written and done.
>>> I don't know who is chair of the f2f SIG, but
after the holidays he/she
>>> and I need to figure out a transition timetable. (Well, I
figured it out
>>> as jonathan at levitt.net, and I have no earthly idea who he is
or what
>>> his agenda is, but he's been c'd on this msg.)
>>> You (or a designee) can figure out how to
seamlessly transfer the 700
>>> or
>>> so subscribers to SIGMET via LISTSERV to whatever the f2f
METRICS SIG
>>> wants to use as its communication medium. You have a readership
of 700
>>> people who are interested in this topic. Don't blow it.
This is a topic
>>> of interest world wide.
>>> Be reminded that SIGMET does not require ASIST
membership, and never
>>> has. It is a general interest group, that does not require
membership.
>>> It is open to anyone - and that was the point - to encourage
conversation
>>> about the subject, and not the association membership. If this
principle
>>> is being abandoned, I find this very, very sad.
>>> I would estimate a timeline of 1 July 2011 to
enable f2f METRICS to
>>> figure out what they want to do regarding communications among
members and
>>> to transfer the membership list from listserv at UTK to MAILMAN
or
>>> whatever software they want to use.
>>>
>>>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>>> Gretchen Whitney, PhD, Retired
>>> School of Information Sciences
>>> University of Tennessee, Knoxville TN 37996 USA
gwhitney at utk.edu
>>> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/
>>> jESSE:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/jesse.html
>>> SIGMETRICS:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
>>> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Pinging now as I looked at our list of e-mail lists, which
is
>>> dynamically
>>>> generated, trying to figure a way to put Metrics info on
that page now
>>> that
>>>> it is a regular SIG.
>>>>
>>>> Then decided I should first check with you to see if this is
a lifetime,
>>>> tenured position as list moderator. Will we, at some
point, be needing
>>> to
>>>> move it from UTK, ten presumably to the mailman software we
use for all
>>> the
>>>> others?
>>>>
>>>> No pressure, just thought I should think about that sort of
thing now
>>> rather
>>>> than when it becomes critical. I can still look at
getting it onto our
>>> list
>>>> info page.
>>>>
>>>> And I also noticed that you membership expired in
September. That is
>>>> totally unrelated to the above.
>>>>
>>>> Happy Holidays!
>>>>
>>>> Dick
>>>>
>>>> _____
>>>> Richard B. Hill
>>>> Executive Director
>>>> American Society for Information Science and Technology
>>>> 1320 Fenwick Lane, Suite 510
>>>> Silver Spring, MD 20910
>>>> Fax: (301) 495-0810
>>>> Voice: (301) 495-0900
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________
From: Stasa Milojevic <smilojev at indiana.edu>
To: sigmet-officers at mail.asis.org
Cc: rhill at asis.org
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2011 3:29 AM
Subject: [Sigmet-officers] Fwd: RE: SIGMETRICS mailing list
Dear all, I am forwarding you email threads that ensued after I had asked to have a link that directs to the SIGMETRICS list subscription info from the ASIST SIG Metrics website. This request (which was honored by Jan and Dick) has, however, triggered some negative response from Dr. Whitney, who now announces that she will be shutting down the list. I know that Dietmar asked Gretchen to continue to maintain the mailing list at UTK when we stopped being a virtual SIG, but, to my knowledge, she never responded to his email. I most certainly do not see any reason not to continue using the current list and servers at UTK. Does anyone know whether any arrangements were made with Gretchen in the end, and also can a moderator terminate the SIG list without first making sure that it is seamlessly transferred to another server (if needed)? Best, Stasa -------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: SIGMETRICS mailing list
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 20:52:08 -0500
From: Gretchen Whitney <gwhitney at utk.edu>
To: Richard Hill <rhill at asis.org>
CC: <smilojev at indiana.edu>, <Cassidysugimoto at gmail.com>
Greetings, I just don't see the problem here. If folks want to join the SIGMET
list, they follow my directions. ASIST only has to point to these
directions. And ASIST already done this. I use listserv protocols, which
are different from mailman protocols. I find it weird that all ASIST lists are housed on ASIST servers, and
that I am such an anomaly. There were in the early days past those who
used other software and worked out the compatibilities. So much for being an early innovator for a spiderweb of an association,
which folks today cannot understand because it is too demanding. SIGMET is not used much any more for serious discussion or distribution
of citations, papers, or trends. I've looked at the current ASIST web
site for the group, and it is just announcements of conference dates. It
isn't discussion of papers. It isn't discussion of trends. I've looked at the current twitter account for SIGMET, and it is just a
mish-mash of general science, with no focus. Especially no focus on
metrics. It is largely just chit-chat somewhat about information issues,
but there is no focus on anything. I don't know who Angela is, but she has four to seven followers for the
Association for SIGMET on Twitter, as if this is the latest technology to
support participation in ASIST SIGs. As of this evening, SIGMET on
listserv has seven hundred and forty nine readers. I hate to leave these
readers in the lurch, but I seem to have no choice. The younger readers
appear to want to chit-chat. I don't see Twitter succeeding for sustained
scholarly conversations, but young people don't seem to be interested in
that. For the ASIST SIG MET, you have four to seven followers. Good luck with
that. I'll kill SIGMET at the end of this calendar year. It is clear that
current ASIST members want to chit-chat, and not have focused on and have
no interest in serious discussions about the subjects at hand. I have no idea whether these issues reverberrate (sp?) across other
SIGs. But I would worry. --gw <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Gretchen Whitney, PhD, Retired
School of Information Sciences
University of Tennessee, Knoxville TN 37996 USA gwhitney at utk.edu http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/ jESSE:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/jesse.html SIGMETRICS:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: SIGMETRICS mailing list
>Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:45:39 -0500
>From: Gretchen Whitney <gwhitney at utk.edu>
>To: Stasa Milojevic <smilojev at indiana.edu>
>CC: Richard Hill <rhill at asis.org> Greetings,
>I see no problems with the ASIST web site and the SIGMET introductory
site. While ASIST uses mailman technlogies and SIGMET uses listserv
technologies, the savvy user will not, and has not, had trouble
transversing between the two. As an Association focused in part on
information technology, the savvy user will realize that the interests of
an Association will be spread across different technologies. Technically, the mailman technologies cannot enable a listserv user to
subscribe to listserv lists. The appropriate web links have been made. --gw
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Gretchen Whitney, PhD, Retired
School of Information Sciences
University of Tennessee, Knoxville TN 37996 USA gwhitney at utk.edu http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/ jESSE:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/jesse.html SIGMETRICS:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Richard Hill wrote: > OK, the main assist e-mail list page has been modified.
> http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo >
> Gretchen, our intent was never to insist that the page was only ASIST
> controlled lists. Problem is that the page comes from a software template
> (it's in Php) and we had not found anyone who could modify that template to
> include the metrics list. That is not an unheard of problem with free ware.
>
> As far as I know, there are no other ASIST related lists that are not on our
> software, since LACASIST moving on. Metrics is the only variation.
>
> Dick
>
> __________
> Richard Hill
> ASIS&T Executive Director
> 1320 Fenwick Lane, Suite 510
> Silver Spring, MD 20910
> FAX: (301) 495-0810
> Voice: (301) 495-0900
> rhill at asis.org >
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gretchen Whitney [mailto:gwhitney at utk.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:18 PM
> To: Richard Hill
> Cc: smilojev at indiana.edu > Subject: RE: SIGMETRICS mailing list
>
> Greetings,
> The ASIST website is accurate at http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo.
> It contains a list of discussion groups that are physically maintained on
> the servers at ASIST.
>
> I doubt if this user wants to know the technical definitions between a
> list archive saved on ASIST vs UTK servers. AFAICT this user wants to
> know how to sign up for SIGMET, and she can't figure it out.
>
> While she could find this information readily on Google, she wants to
> find it on ASIST. While ASIST as an organization may want to limit itself
> to coverage of ASIST-controlled physical resources such as servers, it may
> be useful (if not essential) for new members (as opposed to us old farts
> who know how these things work) for ASIST to include links on its website
> to "associated" SIGs, lists and servers such as Virtual SIGS which lists
> and archives and servers it does not control.
>
> At least she came to ASIST for her information needs, even if she was not
> well schooled in information technology.
>
> --gw
>
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
> Gretchen Whitney, PhD, Retired
> School of Information Sciences
> University of Tennessee, Knoxville TN 37996 USA gwhitney at utk.edu > http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/ > jESSE:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/jesse.html > SIGMETRICS:http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
> On Thu, 1 Dec 2011, Stasa Milojevic wrote: > Dear Dick,
>
> The only thing I am asking for is for the list to be listed on the page, so
> that the members can be aware that the SIG and the list are connected
>and have
> way to subscribe to the list from the ASIST SIG Metrics page.
>
> My desire is by no means to change anything regarding the list itself.
>
> Thanks for looking into this!
>
> Best,
> Stasa > On Thu, 1 Dec 2011, Richard Hill wrote:
>
>> Stasa, copying Gretchen on this as she is the creator, owner, and
> moderator
>> of the Metrics list.
>>
>> The Metrics list in NOT on the ASIST software. Gretchen created this
> years
>> ago and to move it without a compelling reason would risk losing the list
>> archives and be time consuming, given the different softwares involved.
>>
>> The list page we have is automatically generated and re-generates every
> time
>> I add a new list.
>>
>> Presuming that what you are really asking for is not a change in the list,
>> just for the list to be listed on the page. I will look at what can be
> done
>> as a work-around.
>>
>> If the above assumption is wrong, let me know ASAP.
>>
>> Dick
>>
>> __________
>> Richard Hill
>> ASIS&T Executive Director
>> 1320 Fenwick Lane, Suite 510
>> Silver Spring, MD 20910
>> FAX: (301) 495-0810
>> Voice: (301) 495-0900
>> rhill at asis.org >>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: Stasa Milojevic [mailto:smilojev at indiana.edu]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 12:27 PM
>> To: Jan Hatzakos
>> Subject: SIGMETRICS mailing list
>>
>> Dear Jan,
>>
>> I've noticed that on the SIG Metrics ASIST Website the link that is
> supposed
>> to lead to the page with the instructions on how to join SIGMETRICS list
>> leads to the following page:
>> http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo on which SIGMETRICS is not listed.
>> Can you please add SIGMETRICS to the list of ASIST's mailing lists?
>>
>> Again, if you are not the right person to contact could you please let me
>> know who should I ask. Thanks for your help!
>>
>> Best,
>> Stasa
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________Sigmet-officers mailing listSigmet-officers at mail.asis.orghttp://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigmet-officers
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