[Sigcr-l] New thread - Year of Cataloging Research as topic for 2010 SIG-...
Dagobert Soergel
dsoergel at umd.edu
Thu Jun 11 23:00:42 EDT 2009
Noni,
"using information objects" should be construed
very broadly to include your points 1) and
2). There are other similar kinds of data that
fall under here, for example, who has accessed an
object may be useful for both discovery and interpretation.
DS
At 6/11/2009 06:06 PM, Noni Oldfield wrote:
>Dagobert
>
>I can claim some practical understanding of this
>space, having once been an "original cataloguer"
>in a specialist library, moved on to "records
>management" and currently working as an
>enterprise architect - information domain.
>
>I see cataloguing as part of the world of
>metadata, not the other way round. The key to
>this being your definition of cataloguing
>metadata as being "... if used for discovering
>and using information objects." Much of the
>metadata being used in my own organisation is
>not primarily for discovery and access. It is 1)
>to provide business context - so that the
>information being referred to is related to
>other like objects (for example within the same
>business process) and/or 2) to provide evidence
>that something has happened (for example this
>document was created in response to that event
>by this person and has not been altered since
>the time of creation). There is also, of course,
>3) a discovery element - which can certainly be considered cataloguing.
>
>Metadata in this form has some problems
>communicating with other similar domains.
>*The whole notion of needing to provide context
>to information is one which my experience tells
>me the information technology domain is unhappy
>with, because it embeds information within a
>wider context, making the granular notion of
>clean data (like isolated grains of sand) more
>difficult to work with. Data/information becomes
>"sticky" and takes it's metadata along with it.
>*The wider uses for metadata tend to be
>overlooked by the library/discovery/cataloguing
>domain because the use of metadata for discovery
>is so very well developed compared with other
>uses. This causes a bit of the "I have a hammer
>so everything is a nail" syndrome.
>
>I will not be able to attend the SIG, but wish
>you all both entertainment and enlightenment from it.
>
>Regards
>Noni Oldfield
>Senior Enterprise Domain Architect - Information
>Enterprise Architecture
>Inland Revenue Te Tari Taake
>Wellington
>NEW ZEALAND
>Phone DDI +64 4 890 2952
> >>> Dagobert Soergel <dsoergel at umd.edu> 11/06/2009 2:47 p.m. >>>
>Don, Robert,
>
>You are exactly right. Metadata is a term
>invented by those who have come somewhat lately
>to recognize the importance of cataloging. But
>there are now two communities that overlap not all that much:
>
>(1) the community of those concerned primarily
>with traditional library cataloging and
>(2) the community of people concerned with
>cataloging ("metadata") of items on the Web and
>with cataloging other types of objects (where the
>term "metadata" is frequently misapplied).
>
>Communication between these two communities is
>not as strong as it should be. They can indeed learn from each other.
>
>The definition of metadata as "data about data" might be refined to
>
>Metadata = data about information objects if
>used for discovering and using information objects.
>"Metadatahood" resides not in the data themselves
>but in their use. For further elaboration of this point see
><http://www.dsoergel.com/DLF-JCDL2007Expanded.ppt,>www.dsoergel.com/DLF-JCDL2007Expanded.ppt,
>beginning at slide 36.
>
>Contrary to common usage, data about a camera on
>a e-commerce Web site are not metadata, even
>though they look very similar to cataloging data
>about a book. Even data in a library catalog can
>be used directly, as in counting the number of
>publication of a person; in this case, the data
>are not used as metadata (they are not used to
>find sources of information). Data about a
>person are used as metadata if we are looking for
>a person as a source of information but not if we
>are looking for a person to hire for a job.
>
>Dagobert
>
>
>At 5/30/2009 04:02 PM, richards1000 at comcast.net wrote:
> >Mr. Drumtra: Thank you for your interesting
> >message. My understanding is that "metadata
> >practice" is the broader category, of which
> >"cataloging" is a wholly included
> >subcategory. The category of "metadata
> >practice" concerns the creation and management
> >of information about other
> >information. "Metadata practice" is a very
> >broad field that includes, among many other
> >kinds of practice, cataloging, archival
> >practice, records management, indexing &
> >abstracting, the creation of legal citators such
> >as Shepard's and KeyCite, knowledge management
> >within business organizations, and standards
> >activities related to all of these. In my view,
> >cataloging is just a particular kind of metadata
> >practice, namely, the creation and management of
> >information about information resources, as
> >recorded in surrogates intended to be aggregated
> >in a particular kind of database, namely a
> >library catalog, usually featuring (at least)
> >author, title, and subject access, and usually
> >performed in conformance with standards. See,
> >e.g., Lois Mai Chan, Cataloging and
> >Classification: An Introduction ch. 1 (2d ed.
> >1994). In your view, what aspect of cataloging
> >is not included within the broader category of
> >"metadata practice"? Regards, Robert Richards
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >Robert C. Richards, Jr., J.D.*, M.S.L.I.S., M.A.
> >Law Librarian & Legal Information Consultant
> >Philadelphia, PA richards1000 at comcast.net Legal
> >Informatics Blog:
> ><http://legalinformatics.wordpress.com>http://l
> egalinformatics.wordpress.com Legal
> >Information Systems & Legal Informatics
> >Resources:
> ><http://home.comcast.net/~richards1000/LegalInf
> ormationSystemsBibliography.htm>http://home.comcast.net/~richards1000/LegalInformationSystemsBibliography.htm
>
> >Bankruptcy Research Guide:
> ><http://home.comcast.net/~richards1000/CostEffe
> ctiveBankruptcyResearch.htm>http://home.comcast.net/~richards1000/CostEffectiveBankruptcyResearch.htm
>
> >Twitter: <http://twitter.com/richards1000>http://twitter.com/richards1000 *
> >Member New York bar, retired status.
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >----- Original Message ----- From:
> >Drumtra at aol.com To: sigcr-l at asis.org Sent:
> >Friday, May 29, 2009 6:05:46 PM GMT -05:00
> >US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Sigcr-l] New
> >thread - Year of Cataloging Research as topic
> >for 2010 SIG-... At the risk of showing my
> >naivety, I am confused about the
> >distinction being made between metadata and
> >cataloging. >From my library school work it
> >seems to me that one of the aspects of
> >cataloging is generating metadata about the
> >books being cataloged. That includes drawing on
> >AACR2R and soon to be RDA for description,
> >subject headings and classification schemes for
> >organizing the books, and MARC, DACS, and other
> >schemes for formatting and exchanging the
> >metadata. Metadata practices include some
> >cataloging practices and cataloging
> >practices include some metadata practices. Are
> >we not really saying, it is important to
> >consider what library catalogers can teach
> >metadata specialists and what
> >metadata specialists can teach library
> >catalogers? Don Drumtra Student iSchool University of Texas
>
>
>
> >In a message dated 5/28/2009 21:24:05 Central
> >Daylight Time, janeg at email.unc.edu writes:
> >Hope, i like your list very much. of course i
> >am fond of your point about "what metadata can
> >teach cataloging;" and i am thinking it is
> >equally important to consider what "cataloging
> >can teach metadata" too. i love all of
> >the sig/cr discussion that has taken place, and
> >will support any program, however we label it
> >:) best wishes, jane On Wed, 27 May 2009, Hope
> >A Olson wrote: > I would support the theme that
> >puts Library Cataloging Research at the >
> >center and would encourage the inclusion of
> >metadata (and other forms of > information
> >organization) in relation to library
> >cataloging. Such topics > might include: > >
> >- aspects of cataloging and metadata compared >
> >- shared principles of > - cataloging and
> >metadata > - cataloging as the progenitor
> >of metadata > - what metadata can teach
> >cataloging > - will cataloging ultimately give
> >way to cataloging? > > I'm sure collectively we
> >can think of others > > These would be in
> >addition to core topics related to library
> >cataloging > among which I would include the
> >principles, the users, the standards, > the
> >process, the records, the databases, the
> >interfaces, the history, > etc. > > Last year
> >we had a very stimulating workshop on
> >the fairly specific > theme of organizing
> >images. This year's workshop is on the theme >
> >Bridging Worlds, Connecting People:
> >Classification Transcending > Boundaries (I
> >remind you that proposals for papers
> >and posters are due > June 15) which stresses
> >perspective rather than content. Going back to
> >a > content-oriented theme for next year
> >seems reasonable to me - especially > given the
> >potential scope of library cataloging
> >research. > > Somewhat related: I believe
> >someone suggested changing the name of the >
> >SIG from Classification Research to Information
> >Organization or > Knowledge Organization. Since
> >that is what we do in practice, I think > that
> >makes sense. This year's theme uses the term
> >"Classification," but > in reality it, like
> >previous years, will go beyond classification
> >to > other aspects of
> >information organization. > > Hope > > Hope A.
> >Olson, Professor and Associate Dean > School of
> >Information Studies > 510G Bolton Hall >
> >University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee > Milwaukee,
> >WI 53201 > USA >
> <http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/SOIS>http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/SOIS >
> >email holson at uwm.edu >
> >_______________________________________________
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>
>Dagobert Soergel
>College of Information Studies
>University of Maryland
>4105 Hornbake Library
>College Park, MD 20742-4345
>Office: 301-405-2037 Home: 703-823-2840 Mobile: 703-585-2840
>OFax: 301-314-9145 HFax: 703-823-6427
>dsoergel at umd.edu <http://www.dsoergel.com>www.dsoergel.com
>_______________________________________________
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Dagobert Soergel
College of Information Studies
University of Maryland
4105 Hornbake Library
College Park, MD 20742-4345
Office: 301-405-2037 Home: 703-823-2840 Mobile: 703-585-2840
OFax: 301-314-9145 HFax: 703-823-6427
dsoergel at umd.edu www.dsoergel.com
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