Future UK RAEs to be Metrics-Based

[Stephen J Bensman]

Jonathan,
Thanks for the thanks.  You just heard the view of a follower of the
Austrian school of economics (Hayek, Schumpeter) that equates socialism
with serfdom.  And socialistic is what the RAE is.  I am always suspicious
of little authoritarians ginning up numbers with which they can dominate
other people.  Down here in Louisiana such people make us reach for our
Rebel flags and Springfields.

SB




Jonathan Levitt <jonathan at LEVITT.NET>@LISTSERV.UTK.EDU> on 03/31/2006
10:20:39 AM

Please respond to ASIS&T Special Interest Group on Metrics
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Subject:    Re: [SIGMETRICS] Future UK RAEs to be Metrics-Based


Hi,

Thanks Stephen and Phil for your interesting feedback.  Although I
understand Stephen's criticisms of the UK RAE, in my view, compared with
the
system that it replaced it has encouraged researchers and departments to
focus more on research.  This is not to say that the UK RAE is without
problems, but hopefully some of these will be addressed when the current
system is replaced.

Best regards,
Jonathan.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J Bensman" <notsjb at LSU.EDU>
To: <SIGMETRICS at listserv.utk.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [SIGMETRICS] Future UK RAEs to be Metrics-Based


> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
> http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html
>
> Gee, I consider myself anything but a cultural elitist.  After all, I
work
> at LSU.  The basic problem of the RAE is that it is biased against an
> institution like LSU.  At least under the American system, good
> researchers
> at a place like LSU have an even chance to obtain research funding, and
> many take advantage of this system.  That way a good researcher maintains
> his independence and advance his career.  This way LSU plays a major role
> as a launch pad for up and coming scientists.  The British RAE always
> reminded me of the Tsarist system of krugovaia poruka, where all the
> peasants of a commune were held liable for communal taxes.  This was the
> taxation system of serfdom, causing peasants to be chained to the
commune,
> stifling individual initiative, thereby causing agricultural stagnation,
> and ultimately a violent revolution.  If this makes me a cultural
elitist,
> then so be it.
>
> SB
>
>
>
>
> Phil Davis <pmd8 at CORNELL.EDU>@LISTSERV.UTK.EDU> on 03/30/2006 02:09:28 PM
>
> Please respond to ASIS&T Special Interest Group on Metrics
>       <SIGMETRICS at LISTSERV.UTK.EDU>
>
> Sent by:    ASIS&T Special Interest Group on Metrics
>       <SIGMETRICS at LISTSERV.UTK.EDU>
>
>
> To:    SIGMETRICS at LISTSERV.UTK.EDU
> cc:     (bcc: Stephen J Bensman/notsjb/LSU)
>
> Subject:    Re: [SIGMETRICS] Future UK RAEs to be Metrics-Based
>
> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
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>
> Stephen, I wouldn't call you a "capitalist pig" but a willfully blind,
> cultural elitist.  In countries where education is wholly (or mostly)
> funded by the government -- not just the UK and Europe, but Canada and
> others -- the government is concerned about making sure that everyone
gets
> some modicum of funding.  That does not mean a completely equitable
> rationing system, but it ensures a base-level of funding.  In the United
> States, this base-level funding often comes from one's own department or
> college.  Granted, the capitalist-approach you speak of does reward the
> best and greatest, and this Winner-takes-all approach does result in
> pioneering research, yet it only rewards the few.
>
> --Phil Davis
>
>
>
> Stephen Bensman wrote:
>
>>Speaking as a capitalist pig, the entire RAE system is just another
> example
>>of socialists hoisting themselves on their own petards.  Point 1 below
>>contains the essence of the problem.  The US has done pioneering work on
>>the evaluation of research-doctorate programs but was never silly enough
> to
>>allocate research resources on the basis of it.  Luckily because these
>>evaluations were usually screwed up in some way.  Allocation of research
>>resources was always done on a project-by-project basis by the NSF, NIH,
>>and others, with experts in the fields evaluating individual research
>>proposals.  The Europeans have a tendency to overplan everything with
>>disastrous consequences--the disaster in Eastern Europe just being the
>>latest example of it.
>>
>>SB