From tdonehower at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 14:33:35 2015 From: tdonehower at gmail.com (Tom Donehower) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:33:35 -0700 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? Message-ID: For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for product development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if at all? I'm trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. -- -Tom From adrianh at quietstars.com Fri Mar 20 16:02:00 2015 From: adrianh at quietstars.com (Adrian Howard) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:02:00 +0000 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E744CB3-98A8-4725-B644-593860515B9F@quietstars.com> > On 20 Mar 2015, at 18:33, Tom Donehower wrote: > > For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for product development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if at all? > I?m trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. > > Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. This is a few years old but still a relevant read http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html Unfortunately it?s really one of those it-depends questions I?m afraid. My advice would change quite a bit depending on the UX folk involved, the team, how good they are at actually doing Scrum, etc. For example at the more generative end (user research, interviewing, etc.) there is a strong overlap between UX and the Product Owner role in Scrum. So I?ve seen some teams work very effectively by having a UX person basically fill that role, or be a heavy support role for the actual PO. On the other hand many of the most effective agile teams I?ve worked with tend to embed UX in the team. The embedded role tends towards doing a lot more facilitating of UX work by the whole team, as well as doing hands-on work. If you can talk a bit more about any particular issues you?re having I might be able to give some more specific advice. For further reading have a Google around "Agile UX" & "Lean UX". The Lean UX stuff grew out of folk applying UXish things in Lean Startup context ? but it?s bigger than that now, being used in lots of non-startup contexts, and is a good fit for agile. Book wise I?d at least glance at these: * Agile User Experience Design, Diana Brown - This is great for UX folk wanting to grok agile more, and has several case studies on agile/ux teams. However, it doesn?t really dive deep into specific Agile UX practices. Good overview book. Especially for non-agile UX folk. * Agile Experience Design, Lindsay Ratcliffe & Marc McNeill - Much more of a toolbox of techniques/approaches book. The last third-ish of the book is basically a list of techniques. There?s some stuff I?d niggle with in here. Especially on some of the ways they talk about Agile - but it?s kinda hair-splitting stuff if you?re just getting started ;-) * User-Centered Agile Methods, Hugh Beyer ? This is more of a UX-person coming to Agile book, than an Agile folk adopting UX book (if you see what I mean). My personal approach is a little bit different from Hugh?s - but there?s definitely stuff worth thinking about here. If you?re dealing with a more traditional UCD group then this would be very approachable for them. * Lean UX, Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden - "The" book on Lean UX. Good introductory read on Lean UX, but can only do so much for the size of book. It?s also a bit light on some of the more generative user research approaches from my personal perspective. Still a useful read though. * UX for Lean Startups, Laura Klein - I think this fills some gaps in Jeff & Josh?s Lean UX book. Especially on the user research side. I also think it?s a *much* more approachable read to non-UX folk. Something that you can give to the rest of the team. * Lean Customer Development, Cindy Alvarez - Again, something very approachable to non-UX folk in language and tone. Like Jeff, Josh?s & Laura?s books it doesn?t spend a lot of time talking about integration with agile teams specifically, but the techniques fit in with agile approaches very well (indeed, agile approaches are required for this sort of UX approach to work well.). This is more relevant to PO folk. Just on the topic of usability testing, the stuff in Steve Krug?s "Rocket Surgery Made Easy" fits in really nicely with agile - and very approachable for non-UX folk. I?d also keep an eye on Tomer Sharon?s upcoming Lean User Research book from Rosenfeld http://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/lean-user-research-product-development/ Outside of books I?d also take a poke at these two online communities. * Balanced Team (balancedteam.org) - This community grew out of some UX and Agile folk trying to play nice together, but has a bit of a broader scope now. They do online/offline meetups, conferences, and the mailing list is as useful as respectful as this one is IMHO. I first heard about the stuff Janice Fraser et al were doing around Lean UX here, long before it was cool and sexy ;-) * https://groups.yahoo.com/groups/agile-usability/info - This is AFAIK the oldest community of folk that have been poking at Agile & UX. Almost no traffic now, but has a bunch of smart folk subscribed and some gold in the archives. To be honest I think plugging into the online communities around agile ux & lean ux will be more helpful to you than the books. Despite folk having been poking around this for more than ten years now, not enough of it has been written down. Also, while I don?t really actively curate these anymore you may find some of the links on https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:leanux https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agileux https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agile+ux of interest (although the relevance to the topic may, on occasion, need filtering through my brain first ;-) Oh yes. I may put out a newsletter on the topic occasionally that might be useful. Previous issues / subscription at http://is.gd/HNz5TN > Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like > Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. Have happily used Pivotal, Jira & Trello on projects. Have also worked on projects where they?ve been a terrible hinderance. They?re just tools. I tend towards starting with post-it notes or index cards, and move to digital tools if/when necessary. Hope that helps. Cheers, Adrian -- adrianh at quietstars.com / +44 (0)7752 419080 / @adrianh / quietstars.com (CSSTWP.com the product team certification programme you can trust! ;-) From jonathan at bakerbates.com Fri Mar 20 16:29:13 2015 From: jonathan at bakerbates.com (Jonathan Baker-Bates) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:29:13 +0000 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: <1E744CB3-98A8-4725-B644-593860515B9F@quietstars.com> References: <1E744CB3-98A8-4725-B644-593860515B9F@quietstars.com> Message-ID: Also a bit dated being from 2010, but here's my experience from the UX end of things: http://webtorque.org/scrum-didnt-work-for-us/ I have no doubt that Scrum works. It?s just that it works for other people. On 20 March 2015 at 20:02, Adrian Howard wrote: > >> On 20 Mar 2015, at 18:33, Tom Donehower wrote: >> >> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for product development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if at all? > > > >> I?m trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. >> >> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. > > This is a few years old but still a relevant read > > http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html > > Unfortunately it?s really one of those it-depends questions I?m afraid. My advice would change quite a bit depending on the UX folk involved, the team, how good they are at actually doing Scrum, etc. > > For example at the more generative end (user research, interviewing, etc.) there is a strong overlap between UX and the Product Owner role in Scrum. So I?ve seen some teams work very effectively by having a UX person basically fill that role, or be a heavy support role for the actual PO. > > On the other hand many of the most effective agile teams I?ve worked with tend to embed UX in the team. The embedded role tends towards doing a lot more facilitating of UX work by the whole team, as well as doing hands-on work. > > If you can talk a bit more about any particular issues you?re having I might be able to give some more specific advice. > > For further reading have a Google around "Agile UX" & "Lean UX". The Lean UX stuff grew out of folk applying UXish things in Lean Startup context ? but it?s bigger than that now, being used in lots of non-startup contexts, and is a good fit for agile. > > Book wise I?d at least glance at these: > > * Agile User Experience Design, Diana Brown - This is great for UX folk wanting to grok agile more, and has several case studies on agile/ux teams. However, it doesn?t really dive deep into specific Agile UX practices. Good overview book. Especially for non-agile UX folk. > > * Agile Experience Design, Lindsay Ratcliffe & Marc McNeill - Much more of a toolbox of techniques/approaches book. The last third-ish of the book is basically a list of techniques. There?s some stuff I?d niggle with in here. Especially on some of the ways they talk about Agile - but it?s kinda hair-splitting stuff if you?re just getting started ;-) > > * User-Centered Agile Methods, Hugh Beyer ? This is more of a UX-person coming to Agile book, than an Agile folk adopting UX book (if you see what I mean). My personal approach is a little bit different from Hugh?s - but there?s definitely stuff worth thinking about here. If you?re dealing with a more traditional UCD group then this would be very approachable for them. > > * Lean UX, Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden - "The" book on Lean UX. Good introductory read on Lean UX, but can only do so much for the size of book. It?s also a bit light on some of the more generative user research approaches from my personal perspective. Still a useful read though. > > * UX for Lean Startups, Laura Klein - I think this fills some gaps in Jeff & Josh?s Lean UX book. Especially on the user research side. I also think it?s a *much* more approachable read to non-UX folk. Something that you can give to the rest of the team. > > * Lean Customer Development, Cindy Alvarez - Again, something very approachable to non-UX folk in language and tone. Like Jeff, Josh?s & Laura?s books it doesn?t spend a lot of time talking about integration with agile teams specifically, but the techniques fit in with agile approaches very well (indeed, agile approaches are required for this sort of UX approach to work well.). This is more relevant to PO folk. > > Just on the topic of usability testing, the stuff in Steve Krug?s "Rocket Surgery Made Easy" fits in really nicely with agile - and very approachable for non-UX folk. > > I?d also keep an eye on Tomer Sharon?s upcoming Lean User Research book from Rosenfeld http://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/lean-user-research-product-development/ > > Outside of books I?d also take a poke at these two online communities. > > * Balanced Team (balancedteam.org) - This community grew out of some UX and Agile folk trying to play nice together, but has a bit of a broader scope now. They do online/offline meetups, conferences, and the mailing list is as useful as respectful as this one is IMHO. I first heard about the stuff Janice Fraser et al were doing around Lean UX here, long before it was cool and sexy ;-) > > * https://groups.yahoo.com/groups/agile-usability/info - This is AFAIK the oldest community of folk that have been poking at Agile & UX. Almost no traffic now, but has a bunch of smart folk subscribed and some gold in the archives. > > To be honest I think plugging into the online communities around agile ux & lean ux will be more helpful to you than the books. Despite folk having been poking around this for more than ten years now, not enough of it has been written down. > > Also, while I don?t really actively curate these anymore you may find some of the links on > > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:leanux > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agileux > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agile+ux > > of interest (although the relevance to the topic may, on occasion, need filtering through my brain first ;-) > > > Oh yes. I may put out a newsletter on the topic occasionally that might be useful. Previous issues / subscription at http://is.gd/HNz5TN > > >> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like >> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. > > Have happily used Pivotal, Jira & Trello on projects. Have also worked on projects where they?ve been a terrible hinderance. They?re just tools. I tend towards starting with post-it notes or index cards, and move to digital tools if/when necessary. > > Hope that helps. > > Cheers, > > Adrian > > -- > adrianh at quietstars.com / +44 (0)7752 419080 / @adrianh / quietstars.com > (CSSTWP.com the product team certification programme you can trust! ;-) > > > > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l From wonderpup at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 16:36:15 2015 From: wonderpup at gmail.com (Dave Epstein) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 16:36:15 -0400 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <1E744CB3-98A8-4725-B644-593860515B9F@quietstars.com> Message-ID: I find that it can and does work (we use it at my job) but it requires the entire organization to buy in - from how projects are defined and how they are rolled out. That's the hard part. On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Jonathan Baker-Bates < jonathan at bakerbates.com> wrote: > Also a bit dated being from 2010, but here's my experience from the UX > end of things: > > http://webtorque.org/scrum-didnt-work-for-us/ > > I have no doubt that Scrum works. It?s just that it works for other people. > > > On 20 March 2015 at 20:02, Adrian Howard wrote: > > > >> On 20 Mar 2015, at 18:33, Tom Donehower wrote: > >> > >> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for > product development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if > at all? > > > > > > > >> I?m trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables > fit in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. > >> > >> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. > > > > This is a few years old but still a relevant read > > > > > http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html > > > > Unfortunately it?s really one of those it-depends questions I?m afraid. > My advice would change quite a bit depending on the UX folk involved, the > team, how good they are at actually doing Scrum, etc. > > > > For example at the more generative end (user research, interviewing, > etc.) there is a strong overlap between UX and the Product Owner role in > Scrum. So I?ve seen some teams work very effectively by having a UX person > basically fill that role, or be a heavy support role for the actual PO. > > > > On the other hand many of the most effective agile teams I?ve worked > with tend to embed UX in the team. The embedded role tends towards doing a > lot more facilitating of UX work by the whole team, as well as doing > hands-on work. > > > > If you can talk a bit more about any particular issues you?re having I > might be able to give some more specific advice. > > > > For further reading have a Google around "Agile UX" & "Lean UX". The > Lean UX stuff grew out of folk applying UXish things in Lean Startup > context ? but it?s bigger than that now, being used in lots of non-startup > contexts, and is a good fit for agile. > > > > Book wise I?d at least glance at these: > > > > * Agile User Experience Design, Diana Brown - This is great for UX folk > wanting to grok agile more, and has several case studies on agile/ux teams. > However, it doesn?t really dive deep into specific Agile UX practices. Good > overview book. Especially for non-agile UX folk. > > > > * Agile Experience Design, Lindsay Ratcliffe & Marc McNeill - Much more > of a toolbox of techniques/approaches book. The last third-ish of the book > is basically a list of techniques. There?s some stuff I?d niggle with in > here. Especially on some of the ways they talk about Agile - but it?s kinda > hair-splitting stuff if you?re just getting started ;-) > > > > * User-Centered Agile Methods, Hugh Beyer ? This is more of a UX-person > coming to Agile book, than an Agile folk adopting UX book (if you see what > I mean). My personal approach is a little bit different from Hugh?s - but > there?s definitely stuff worth thinking about here. If you?re dealing with > a more traditional UCD group then this would be very approachable for them. > > > > * Lean UX, Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden - "The" book on Lean UX. Good > introductory read on Lean UX, but can only do so much for the size of book. > It?s also a bit light on some of the more generative user research > approaches from my personal perspective. Still a useful read though. > > > > * UX for Lean Startups, Laura Klein - I think this fills some gaps in > Jeff & Josh?s Lean UX book. Especially on the user research side. I also > think it?s a *much* more approachable read to non-UX folk. Something that > you can give to the rest of the team. > > > > * Lean Customer Development, Cindy Alvarez - Again, something very > approachable to non-UX folk in language and tone. Like Jeff, Josh?s & > Laura?s books it doesn?t spend a lot of time talking about integration with > agile teams specifically, but the techniques fit in with agile approaches > very well (indeed, agile approaches are required for this sort of UX > approach to work well.). This is more relevant to PO folk. > > > > Just on the topic of usability testing, the stuff in Steve Krug?s > "Rocket Surgery Made Easy" fits in really nicely with agile - and very > approachable for non-UX folk. > > > > I?d also keep an eye on Tomer Sharon?s upcoming Lean User Research book > from Rosenfeld > http://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/lean-user-research-product-development/ > > > > Outside of books I?d also take a poke at these two online communities. > > > > * Balanced Team (balancedteam.org) - This community grew out of some UX > and Agile folk trying to play nice together, but has a bit of a broader > scope now. They do online/offline meetups, conferences, and the mailing > list is as useful as respectful as this one is IMHO. I first heard about > the stuff Janice Fraser et al were doing around Lean UX here, long before > it was cool and sexy ;-) > > > > * https://groups.yahoo.com/groups/agile-usability/info - This is AFAIK > the oldest community of folk that have been poking at Agile & UX. Almost no > traffic now, but has a bunch of smart folk subscribed and some gold in the > archives. > > > > To be honest I think plugging into the online communities around agile > ux & lean ux will be more helpful to you than the books. Despite folk > having been poking around this for more than ten years now, not enough of > it has been written down. > > > > Also, while I don?t really actively curate these anymore you may find > some of the links on > > > > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:leanux > > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agileux > > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agile+ux > > > > of interest (although the relevance to the topic may, on occasion, need > filtering through my brain first ;-) > > > > > > Oh yes. I may put out a newsletter on the topic occasionally that might > be useful. Previous issues / subscription at http://is.gd/HNz5TN > > > > > >> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend > like > >> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. > > > > Have happily used Pivotal, Jira & Trello on projects. Have also worked > on projects where they?ve been a terrible hinderance. They?re just tools. I > tend towards starting with post-it notes or index cards, and move to > digital tools if/when necessary. > > > > Hope that helps. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Adrian > > > > -- > > adrianh at quietstars.com / +44 (0)7752 419080 / @adrianh / quietstars.com > > (CSSTWP.com the product team certification programme you can trust! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > ------------ > > 2015 IA Summit > > April 22-26, 2015 > > Minneapolis, MN > > ----- > > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > > ________________________________________ > > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From jonathan at bakerbates.com Fri Mar 20 17:06:47 2015 From: jonathan at bakerbates.com (Jonathan Baker-Bates) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 21:06:47 +0000 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <1E744CB3-98A8-4725-B644-593860515B9F@quietstars.com> Message-ID: My experience would indicate that you're correct. In larger organisations, I think scrum is probably doomed to fail because technical departments usually don't have the influence needed to push the agenda needed for scrum to work. For example, scrum is basically about increasing quality, and isn't necessarily about increasing speed (in fact projects often start slower while risks are flushed out at the start). However, we found we had to present scum as a way of accelerating development in order to get the CEO to agree to try it. My unease about that deception turned out to be justified. On 20 March 2015 at 20:36, Dave Epstein wrote: > I find that it can and does work (we use it at my job) but it requires the > entire organization to buy in - from how projects are defined and how they > are rolled out. That's the hard part. > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Jonathan Baker-Bates < > jonathan at bakerbates.com> wrote: > >> Also a bit dated being from 2010, but here's my experience from the UX >> end of things: >> >> http://webtorque.org/scrum-didnt-work-for-us/ >> >> I have no doubt that Scrum works. It?s just that it works for other people. >> >> >> On 20 March 2015 at 20:02, Adrian Howard wrote: >> > >> >> On 20 Mar 2015, at 18:33, Tom Donehower wrote: >> >> >> >> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for >> product development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if >> at all? >> > >> > >> > >> >> I?m trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables >> fit in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. >> >> >> >> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. >> > >> > This is a few years old but still a relevant read >> > >> > >> http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html >> > >> > Unfortunately it?s really one of those it-depends questions I?m afraid. >> My advice would change quite a bit depending on the UX folk involved, the >> team, how good they are at actually doing Scrum, etc. >> > >> > For example at the more generative end (user research, interviewing, >> etc.) there is a strong overlap between UX and the Product Owner role in >> Scrum. So I?ve seen some teams work very effectively by having a UX person >> basically fill that role, or be a heavy support role for the actual PO. >> > >> > On the other hand many of the most effective agile teams I?ve worked >> with tend to embed UX in the team. The embedded role tends towards doing a >> lot more facilitating of UX work by the whole team, as well as doing >> hands-on work. >> > >> > If you can talk a bit more about any particular issues you?re having I >> might be able to give some more specific advice. >> > >> > For further reading have a Google around "Agile UX" & "Lean UX". The >> Lean UX stuff grew out of folk applying UXish things in Lean Startup >> context ? but it?s bigger than that now, being used in lots of non-startup >> contexts, and is a good fit for agile. >> > >> > Book wise I?d at least glance at these: >> > >> > * Agile User Experience Design, Diana Brown - This is great for UX folk >> wanting to grok agile more, and has several case studies on agile/ux teams. >> However, it doesn?t really dive deep into specific Agile UX practices. Good >> overview book. Especially for non-agile UX folk. >> > >> > * Agile Experience Design, Lindsay Ratcliffe & Marc McNeill - Much more >> of a toolbox of techniques/approaches book. The last third-ish of the book >> is basically a list of techniques. There?s some stuff I?d niggle with in >> here. Especially on some of the ways they talk about Agile - but it?s kinda >> hair-splitting stuff if you?re just getting started ;-) >> > >> > * User-Centered Agile Methods, Hugh Beyer ? This is more of a UX-person >> coming to Agile book, than an Agile folk adopting UX book (if you see what >> I mean). My personal approach is a little bit different from Hugh?s - but >> there?s definitely stuff worth thinking about here. If you?re dealing with >> a more traditional UCD group then this would be very approachable for them. >> > >> > * Lean UX, Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden - "The" book on Lean UX. Good >> introductory read on Lean UX, but can only do so much for the size of book. >> It?s also a bit light on some of the more generative user research >> approaches from my personal perspective. Still a useful read though. >> > >> > * UX for Lean Startups, Laura Klein - I think this fills some gaps in >> Jeff & Josh?s Lean UX book. Especially on the user research side. I also >> think it?s a *much* more approachable read to non-UX folk. Something that >> you can give to the rest of the team. >> > >> > * Lean Customer Development, Cindy Alvarez - Again, something very >> approachable to non-UX folk in language and tone. Like Jeff, Josh?s & >> Laura?s books it doesn?t spend a lot of time talking about integration with >> agile teams specifically, but the techniques fit in with agile approaches >> very well (indeed, agile approaches are required for this sort of UX >> approach to work well.). This is more relevant to PO folk. >> > >> > Just on the topic of usability testing, the stuff in Steve Krug?s >> "Rocket Surgery Made Easy" fits in really nicely with agile - and very >> approachable for non-UX folk. >> > >> > I?d also keep an eye on Tomer Sharon?s upcoming Lean User Research book >> from Rosenfeld >> http://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/lean-user-research-product-development/ >> > >> > Outside of books I?d also take a poke at these two online communities. >> > >> > * Balanced Team (balancedteam.org) - This community grew out of some UX >> and Agile folk trying to play nice together, but has a bit of a broader >> scope now. They do online/offline meetups, conferences, and the mailing >> list is as useful as respectful as this one is IMHO. I first heard about >> the stuff Janice Fraser et al were doing around Lean UX here, long before >> it was cool and sexy ;-) >> > >> > * https://groups.yahoo.com/groups/agile-usability/info - This is AFAIK >> the oldest community of folk that have been poking at Agile & UX. Almost no >> traffic now, but has a bunch of smart folk subscribed and some gold in the >> archives. >> > >> > To be honest I think plugging into the online communities around agile >> ux & lean ux will be more helpful to you than the books. Despite folk >> having been poking around this for more than ten years now, not enough of >> it has been written down. >> > >> > Also, while I don?t really actively curate these anymore you may find >> some of the links on >> > >> > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:leanux >> > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agileux >> > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agile+ux >> > >> > of interest (although the relevance to the topic may, on occasion, need >> filtering through my brain first ;-) >> > >> > >> > Oh yes. I may put out a newsletter on the topic occasionally that might >> be useful. Previous issues / subscription at http://is.gd/HNz5TN >> > >> > >> >> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend >> like >> >> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. >> > >> > Have happily used Pivotal, Jira & Trello on projects. Have also worked >> on projects where they?ve been a terrible hinderance. They?re just tools. I >> tend towards starting with post-it notes or index cards, and move to >> digital tools if/when necessary. >> > >> > Hope that helps. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > Adrian >> > >> > -- >> > adrianh at quietstars.com / +44 (0)7752 419080 / @adrianh / quietstars.com >> > (CSSTWP.com the product team certification programme you can trust! ;-) >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------ >> > 2015 IA Summit >> > April 22-26, 2015 >> > Minneapolis, MN >> > ----- >> > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> > >> > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> > ________________________________________ >> > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >> >> ------------ >> 2015 IA Summit >> April 22-26, 2015 >> Minneapolis, MN >> ----- >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> ________________________________________ >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >> > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l From tdonehower at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 17:43:06 2015 From: tdonehower at gmail.com (Thomas Donehower) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:43:06 -0700 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <1E744CB3-98A8-4725-B644-593860515B9F@quietstars.com> Message-ID: Fantastic feedback! Thank you. Could I ask for each of you who have responded where did UX and visual design fit in with your scrum experience? > On Mar 20, 2015, at 2:06 PM, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > > My experience would indicate that you're correct. In larger > organisations, I think scrum is probably doomed to fail because > technical departments usually don't have the influence needed to push > the agenda needed for scrum to work. For example, scrum is basically > about increasing quality, and isn't necessarily about increasing speed > (in fact projects often start slower while risks are flushed out at > the start). However, we found we had to present scum as a way of > accelerating development in order to get the CEO to agree to try it. > My unease about that deception turned out to be justified. > > > >> On 20 March 2015 at 20:36, Dave Epstein wrote: >> I find that it can and does work (we use it at my job) but it requires the >> entire organization to buy in - from how projects are defined and how they >> are rolled out. That's the hard part. >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Jonathan Baker-Bates < >> jonathan at bakerbates.com> wrote: >> >>> Also a bit dated being from 2010, but here's my experience from the UX >>> end of things: >>> >>> http://webtorque.org/scrum-didnt-work-for-us/ >>> >>> I have no doubt that Scrum works. It?s just that it works for other people. >>> >>> >>>> On 20 March 2015 at 20:02, Adrian Howard wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 20 Mar 2015, at 18:33, Tom Donehower wrote: >>>>> >>>>> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for >>> product development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if >>> at all? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I?m trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables >>> fit in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. >>>>> >>>>> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> This is a few years old but still a relevant read >>> http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html >>>> >>>> Unfortunately it?s really one of those it-depends questions I?m afraid. >>> My advice would change quite a bit depending on the UX folk involved, the >>> team, how good they are at actually doing Scrum, etc. >>>> >>>> For example at the more generative end (user research, interviewing, >>> etc.) there is a strong overlap between UX and the Product Owner role in >>> Scrum. So I?ve seen some teams work very effectively by having a UX person >>> basically fill that role, or be a heavy support role for the actual PO. >>>> >>>> On the other hand many of the most effective agile teams I?ve worked >>> with tend to embed UX in the team. The embedded role tends towards doing a >>> lot more facilitating of UX work by the whole team, as well as doing >>> hands-on work. >>>> >>>> If you can talk a bit more about any particular issues you?re having I >>> might be able to give some more specific advice. >>>> >>>> For further reading have a Google around "Agile UX" & "Lean UX". The >>> Lean UX stuff grew out of folk applying UXish things in Lean Startup >>> context ? but it?s bigger than that now, being used in lots of non-startup >>> contexts, and is a good fit for agile. >>>> >>>> Book wise I?d at least glance at these: >>>> >>>> * Agile User Experience Design, Diana Brown - This is great for UX folk >>> wanting to grok agile more, and has several case studies on agile/ux teams. >>> However, it doesn?t really dive deep into specific Agile UX practices. Good >>> overview book. Especially for non-agile UX folk. >>>> >>>> * Agile Experience Design, Lindsay Ratcliffe & Marc McNeill - Much more >>> of a toolbox of techniques/approaches book. The last third-ish of the book >>> is basically a list of techniques. There?s some stuff I?d niggle with in >>> here. Especially on some of the ways they talk about Agile - but it?s kinda >>> hair-splitting stuff if you?re just getting started ;-) >>>> >>>> * User-Centered Agile Methods, Hugh Beyer ? This is more of a UX-person >>> coming to Agile book, than an Agile folk adopting UX book (if you see what >>> I mean). My personal approach is a little bit different from Hugh?s - but >>> there?s definitely stuff worth thinking about here. If you?re dealing with >>> a more traditional UCD group then this would be very approachable for them. >>>> >>>> * Lean UX, Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden - "The" book on Lean UX. Good >>> introductory read on Lean UX, but can only do so much for the size of book. >>> It?s also a bit light on some of the more generative user research >>> approaches from my personal perspective. Still a useful read though. >>>> >>>> * UX for Lean Startups, Laura Klein - I think this fills some gaps in >>> Jeff & Josh?s Lean UX book. Especially on the user research side. I also >>> think it?s a *much* more approachable read to non-UX folk. Something that >>> you can give to the rest of the team. >>>> >>>> * Lean Customer Development, Cindy Alvarez - Again, something very >>> approachable to non-UX folk in language and tone. Like Jeff, Josh?s & >>> Laura?s books it doesn?t spend a lot of time talking about integration with >>> agile teams specifically, but the techniques fit in with agile approaches >>> very well (indeed, agile approaches are required for this sort of UX >>> approach to work well.). This is more relevant to PO folk. >>>> >>>> Just on the topic of usability testing, the stuff in Steve Krug?s >>> "Rocket Surgery Made Easy" fits in really nicely with agile - and very >>> approachable for non-UX folk. >>>> >>>> I?d also keep an eye on Tomer Sharon?s upcoming Lean User Research book >>> from Rosenfeld >>> http://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/lean-user-research-product-development/ >>>> >>>> Outside of books I?d also take a poke at these two online communities. >>>> >>>> * Balanced Team (balancedteam.org) - This community grew out of some UX >>> and Agile folk trying to play nice together, but has a bit of a broader >>> scope now. They do online/offline meetups, conferences, and the mailing >>> list is as useful as respectful as this one is IMHO. I first heard about >>> the stuff Janice Fraser et al were doing around Lean UX here, long before >>> it was cool and sexy ;-) >>>> >>>> * https://groups.yahoo.com/groups/agile-usability/info - This is AFAIK >>> the oldest community of folk that have been poking at Agile & UX. Almost no >>> traffic now, but has a bunch of smart folk subscribed and some gold in the >>> archives. >>>> >>>> To be honest I think plugging into the online communities around agile >>> ux & lean ux will be more helpful to you than the books. Despite folk >>> having been poking around this for more than ten years now, not enough of >>> it has been written down. >>>> >>>> Also, while I don?t really actively curate these anymore you may find >>> some of the links on >>>> >>>> https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:leanux >>>> https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agileux >>>> https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agile+ux >>>> >>>> of interest (although the relevance to the topic may, on occasion, need >>> filtering through my brain first ;-) >>>> >>>> >>>> Oh yes. I may put out a newsletter on the topic occasionally that might >>> be useful. Previous issues / subscription at http://is.gd/HNz5TN >>>> >>>> >>>>> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend >>> like >>>>> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. >>>> >>>> Have happily used Pivotal, Jira & Trello on projects. Have also worked >>> on projects where they?ve been a terrible hinderance. They?re just tools. I >>> tend towards starting with post-it notes or index cards, and move to >>> digital tools if/when necessary. >>>> >>>> Hope that helps. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Adrian >>>> >>>> -- >>>> adrianh at quietstars.com / +44 (0)7752 419080 / @adrianh / quietstars.com >>>> (CSSTWP.com the product team certification programme you can trust! ;-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------ >>>> 2015 IA Summit >>>> April 22-26, 2015 >>>> Minneapolis, MN >>>> ----- >>>> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >>>> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >>>> >>>> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >>>> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >>> >>> ------------ >>> 2015 IA Summit >>> April 22-26, 2015 >>> Minneapolis, MN >>> ----- >>> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >>> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >>> >>> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >>> ________________________________________ >>> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >>> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >> ------------ >> 2015 IA Summit >> April 22-26, 2015 >> Minneapolis, MN >> ----- >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> ________________________________________ >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l From jonathan at bakerbates.com Fri Mar 20 18:34:35 2015 From: jonathan at bakerbates.com (Jonathan Baker-Bates) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 22:34:35 +0000 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <1E744CB3-98A8-4725-B644-593860515B9F@quietstars.com> Message-ID: We started by having UX and VD outside scrum in a "resource pool" because the devs went into scrum first. UX then allocated people to be part of each scrum team in "orthodox" scrum style. They all then worked in 2 or 3-week sprints, depending on which team they were in. Sometimes the devs did some UX work, but mostly didn't have the time as they were too busy working on stories the UX guys had worked up in previous sprints. The product owners (together with UX) had the capacity to generate complex stories that maxed out their developers very easily. Our UX guys were also not qualified to write production code of any kind, so there was no question of roles blurring there either. BTW we also ditched most of the exploratory customer research we used to do, and just went for gut feeling in the hope we could "tack" later on once things shipped and we could put working systems in front of users. I'd say that while that might have worked in theory, in practice we found it was scuppered by the extreme reluctance of the devs to throw away production code early on in the name of agility. I've also subsequently encountered this in other places (I currently work in "programmer anarchy" - Google will explain). While devs are fine with refactoring code on their own terms, it's much harder to convince them to refactor the UX because it might well involved very large technical changes. This may be a fundamental difference between the UX and development mindsets though. Not sure. While I'm on the subject of UX and VD in scrum, there is also an issue around the interpretation of "minimum viable product" when sizing stories. Very often, I've seen MVP being used as a cover for crappy UX. When this goes into production, it is quite rightly seen as such by stakeholders and becomes something that de-motivates, angers and frustrates many people. Perhaps that frustration is in fact necessary in the name of agility. If done well it means you won't waste time on the wrong things. But we just couldn't stomach the emotional reality of it. I should also point out that our "post-scrum" experience was rather better. The devs went into a form of scrumban, while UX and VD went into full kanban, albeit "throwing it over the wall" to the devs at the end. Kanban was much, much better for us. No sprints, estimation or ceremonies, we just concentrated on "waste". It was simple, and we could keep to the quality we wanted without slowing down. But I guess that's a story for another time. On 20 March 2015 at 21:43, Thomas Donehower wrote: > Fantastic feedback! Thank you. Could I ask for each of you who have responded where did UX and visual design fit in with your scrum experience? > > > >> On Mar 20, 2015, at 2:06 PM, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: >> >> My experience would indicate that you're correct. In larger >> organisations, I think scrum is probably doomed to fail because >> technical departments usually don't have the influence needed to push >> the agenda needed for scrum to work. For example, scrum is basically >> about increasing quality, and isn't necessarily about increasing speed >> (in fact projects often start slower while risks are flushed out at >> the start). However, we found we had to present scum as a way of >> accelerating development in order to get the CEO to agree to try it. >> My unease about that deception turned out to be justified. >> >> >> >>> On 20 March 2015 at 20:36, Dave Epstein wrote: >>> I find that it can and does work (we use it at my job) but it requires the >>> entire organization to buy in - from how projects are defined and how they >>> are rolled out. That's the hard part. >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Jonathan Baker-Bates < >>> jonathan at bakerbates.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Also a bit dated being from 2010, but here's my experience from the UX >>>> end of things: >>>> >>>> http://webtorque.org/scrum-didnt-work-for-us/ >>>> >>>> I have no doubt that Scrum works. It?s just that it works for other people. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 20 March 2015 at 20:02, Adrian Howard wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 20 Mar 2015, at 18:33, Tom Donehower wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for >>>> product development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if >>>> at all? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I?m trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables >>>> fit in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. >>>>>> >>>>>> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> This is a few years old but still a relevant read >>>> http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately it?s really one of those it-depends questions I?m afraid. >>>> My advice would change quite a bit depending on the UX folk involved, the >>>> team, how good they are at actually doing Scrum, etc. >>>>> >>>>> For example at the more generative end (user research, interviewing, >>>> etc.) there is a strong overlap between UX and the Product Owner role in >>>> Scrum. So I?ve seen some teams work very effectively by having a UX person >>>> basically fill that role, or be a heavy support role for the actual PO. >>>>> >>>>> On the other hand many of the most effective agile teams I?ve worked >>>> with tend to embed UX in the team. The embedded role tends towards doing a >>>> lot more facilitating of UX work by the whole team, as well as doing >>>> hands-on work. >>>>> >>>>> If you can talk a bit more about any particular issues you?re having I >>>> might be able to give some more specific advice. >>>>> >>>>> For further reading have a Google around "Agile UX" & "Lean UX". The >>>> Lean UX stuff grew out of folk applying UXish things in Lean Startup >>>> context ? but it?s bigger than that now, being used in lots of non-startup >>>> contexts, and is a good fit for agile. >>>>> >>>>> Book wise I?d at least glance at these: >>>>> >>>>> * Agile User Experience Design, Diana Brown - This is great for UX folk >>>> wanting to grok agile more, and has several case studies on agile/ux teams. >>>> However, it doesn?t really dive deep into specific Agile UX practices. Good >>>> overview book. Especially for non-agile UX folk. >>>>> >>>>> * Agile Experience Design, Lindsay Ratcliffe & Marc McNeill - Much more >>>> of a toolbox of techniques/approaches book. The last third-ish of the book >>>> is basically a list of techniques. There?s some stuff I?d niggle with in >>>> here. Especially on some of the ways they talk about Agile - but it?s kinda >>>> hair-splitting stuff if you?re just getting started ;-) >>>>> >>>>> * User-Centered Agile Methods, Hugh Beyer ? This is more of a UX-person >>>> coming to Agile book, than an Agile folk adopting UX book (if you see what >>>> I mean). My personal approach is a little bit different from Hugh?s - but >>>> there?s definitely stuff worth thinking about here. If you?re dealing with >>>> a more traditional UCD group then this would be very approachable for them. >>>>> >>>>> * Lean UX, Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden - "The" book on Lean UX. Good >>>> introductory read on Lean UX, but can only do so much for the size of book. >>>> It?s also a bit light on some of the more generative user research >>>> approaches from my personal perspective. Still a useful read though. >>>>> >>>>> * UX for Lean Startups, Laura Klein - I think this fills some gaps in >>>> Jeff & Josh?s Lean UX book. Especially on the user research side. I also >>>> think it?s a *much* more approachable read to non-UX folk. Something that >>>> you can give to the rest of the team. >>>>> >>>>> * Lean Customer Development, Cindy Alvarez - Again, something very >>>> approachable to non-UX folk in language and tone. Like Jeff, Josh?s & >>>> Laura?s books it doesn?t spend a lot of time talking about integration with >>>> agile teams specifically, but the techniques fit in with agile approaches >>>> very well (indeed, agile approaches are required for this sort of UX >>>> approach to work well.). This is more relevant to PO folk. >>>>> >>>>> Just on the topic of usability testing, the stuff in Steve Krug?s >>>> "Rocket Surgery Made Easy" fits in really nicely with agile - and very >>>> approachable for non-UX folk. >>>>> >>>>> I?d also keep an eye on Tomer Sharon?s upcoming Lean User Research book >>>> from Rosenfeld >>>> http://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/lean-user-research-product-development/ >>>>> >>>>> Outside of books I?d also take a poke at these two online communities. >>>>> >>>>> * Balanced Team (balancedteam.org) - This community grew out of some UX >>>> and Agile folk trying to play nice together, but has a bit of a broader >>>> scope now. They do online/offline meetups, conferences, and the mailing >>>> list is as useful as respectful as this one is IMHO. I first heard about >>>> the stuff Janice Fraser et al were doing around Lean UX here, long before >>>> it was cool and sexy ;-) >>>>> >>>>> * https://groups.yahoo.com/groups/agile-usability/info - This is AFAIK >>>> the oldest community of folk that have been poking at Agile & UX. Almost no >>>> traffic now, but has a bunch of smart folk subscribed and some gold in the >>>> archives. >>>>> >>>>> To be honest I think plugging into the online communities around agile >>>> ux & lean ux will be more helpful to you than the books. Despite folk >>>> having been poking around this for more than ten years now, not enough of >>>> it has been written down. >>>>> >>>>> Also, while I don?t really actively curate these anymore you may find >>>> some of the links on >>>>> >>>>> https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:leanux >>>>> https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agileux >>>>> https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agile+ux >>>>> >>>>> of interest (although the relevance to the topic may, on occasion, need >>>> filtering through my brain first ;-) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Oh yes. I may put out a newsletter on the topic occasionally that might >>>> be useful. Previous issues / subscription at http://is.gd/HNz5TN >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend >>>> like >>>>>> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. >>>>> >>>>> Have happily used Pivotal, Jira & Trello on projects. Have also worked >>>> on projects where they?ve been a terrible hinderance. They?re just tools. I >>>> tend towards starting with post-it notes or index cards, and move to >>>> digital tools if/when necessary. >>>>> >>>>> Hope that helps. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Adrian >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> adrianh at quietstars.com / +44 (0)7752 419080 / @adrianh / quietstars.com >>>>> (CSSTWP.com the product team certification programme you can trust! ;-) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------ >>>>> 2015 IA Summit >>>>> April 22-26, 2015 >>>>> Minneapolis, MN >>>>> ----- >>>>> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >>>>> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >>>>> >>>>> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >>>>> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >>>> >>>> ------------ >>>> 2015 IA Summit >>>> April 22-26, 2015 >>>> Minneapolis, MN >>>> ----- >>>> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >>>> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >>>> >>>> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >>>> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >>> ------------ >>> 2015 IA Summit >>> April 22-26, 2015 >>> Minneapolis, MN >>> ----- >>> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >>> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >>> >>> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >>> ________________________________________ >>> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >>> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >> >> ------------ >> 2015 IA Summit >> April 22-26, 2015 >> Minneapolis, MN >> ----- >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> ________________________________________ >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 02:36:38 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 17:36:38 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I used to be a UX practitioner, then I started using agile methods to deliver products (about 10 years ago). Now I'm an Agile Coach (for the last 6 years. Scrum, Lean and Kanban are my fav methods) *Where does UX / Visual Design fit into Scrum?* If you look at companies like eBay, Yahoo, Atlassian or even Spofity, the agile team does all the design (including user-experience and visual design) as well as development and testing. They plan together, they create an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint. Typically, as a result, there is some sort of UX skilled person as an integrated part of the team. This is also my preference for teaching teams to work in agile ways. I find this highly collaborative approach empowers the whole team to take control of the design themselves. That's not to say that they don't design within a set of standards or guidelines, though. E.g. within WCAG 2.0 AA, or a visual branding style guide. These standards form part of their Definition of Done. When scaling across large numbers of team, this 'guidance' becomes very handy. I find that the guidance that the SAFe guys are producing in the area of UX and scale quite useful. http://www.scaledagileframework.com/ux/ With one team that I'm coaching now, their UX person is using Axure to communicate interaction designs that are being implemented in the same Sprint. He just finds this is the best way to communicate the intention of the design to the rest of the team. If I'm doing UX work as a team member, I don't tend to use this approach, I tend to do a lot of whiteboard sessions with the rest of the team. This is a team separated across 3 cities and two timezones. The physical separation just makes things harder. We use the Quantum Entanglement pattern to compensate ( https://sites.google.com/a/scrumplop.org/published-patterns/distributed-scrum-pattern-language/quantum-entanglement ). *Deliverables?* We do story mapping to help rapidly create the Product Backlog and produce user stories rather than do extensive Spikes or Sprint 0 ( http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/10/07/jeff-patton-story-mapping-for-ux-practitioners-tying-agile-and-ux-together/ ) We don't do wireframes as deliverables, but use them to communicate and clarify design within the team. It also helps keep us focussed in terms of what was suggested. We do Pragmatic Personas ( http://www.stickyminds.com/article/pragmatic-personas) to help our user stories and the Increment be user-focussed. We do user journeys to help communicate where Epics, Features and User Stories fit into the user experience. We tend to update our documentation as we go as part of the Definition of Done. This means all systems, data architecture and UX doco get updated in an iterative fashion each Sprint as part of the Increment (production ready, working software). *Roles* In terms of roles, I find that a Senior UX person can be an excellent Scrum Product Owner as can a Senior BA. A person with good UX experience can also be a greate Scrum Master because it can help the team focus on slicing user stories to best represent a minimal viable (lovable) product (MVP) (not that MVP is not supposed to be just minimal but importantly viable ... to whom is often the issue. It's not minimal and viable for the team, it is for the end-user). Apart from Scrum's 3 roles (Scrum Master, Product Owner and Team), we don't have other formal roles. We don't even have a dev or test "lead" role let alone a "ux designer" role. *War Stories* I used to employ the parallel pattern from Lynn Miller ( http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html). The UX people always seem to get ahead of their teams, waste always results (Lean would classify it as "over production"), and while there was coordination there was little deep discussion and collaboration. The former is important to note because you could interpret as an anti-pattern. The Sprint 0 required to get work going is also considered an anti-pattern by most scrum coaches and trainers. *Tools* I seem to end up using with Jira Agile or LeanKit. I don't find them useful or as adaptable as a physical Kanban board though. M On 21 March 2015 at 05:33, Tom Donehower wrote: > For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for product > development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if at all? > > I'm trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit > in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. > > Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. > > Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like > Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. > > -- > -Tom > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From jonathan at bakerbates.com Sat Mar 21 12:54:30 2015 From: jonathan at bakerbates.com (Jonathan Baker-Bates) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 16:54:30 +0000 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "... they create an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint." I assume this only really works when the team members can all (or mostly) do the UX and VD work as well their other roles. By "UX work", I mean things like user research, prototyping, visual and interaction design, etc. This would mean that during such sprints, developers wouldn't be coding (other than perhaps looking at technical debt or bug fixes from the last sprint). The companies you mention also have mature products (or at least brands) already, which makes it less likely that the visual design, if not the interaction design, would go off the rails. If you're a startup, things would be rather different I would suppose. One of the major problems I've found with sprint-based activity is when team members can't (or won't) do UX work because they're working to deliver their part on stories from a previous sprint. I take it that you prevent this by making sure all stories are done in a single sprint, is that right? Does that not lead to endless discussions about how to cut stories down to fit though? Interesting also that you say that a UX person might be the product owner or scrum master (they're very different roles in orthodox scrum, of course). Assuming UX designers have the necessary seniority in the organisation to take the place of product manager, I would think having UX in that position would lead to large "sprint zeros", no? Jonathan On 21 March 2015 at 06:36, Matthew Hodgson wrote: > I used to be a UX practitioner, then I started using agile methods to > deliver products (about 10 years ago). Now I'm an Agile Coach (for the last > 6 years. Scrum, Lean and Kanban are my fav methods) > > *Where does UX / Visual Design fit into Scrum?* > > If you look at companies like eBay, Yahoo, Atlassian or even Spofity, the > agile team does all the design (including user-experience and visual > design) as well as development and testing. They plan together, they create > an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint. Typically, as a > result, there is some sort of UX skilled person as an integrated part of > the team. This is also my preference for teaching teams to work in agile > ways. > > I find this highly collaborative approach empowers the whole team to take > control of the design themselves. That's not to say that they don't design > within a set of standards or guidelines, though. E.g. within WCAG 2.0 AA, > or a visual branding style guide. These standards form part of their > Definition of Done. When scaling across large numbers of team, this > 'guidance' becomes very handy. I find that the guidance that the SAFe guys > are producing in the area of UX and scale quite useful. > http://www.scaledagileframework.com/ux/ > > With one team that I'm coaching now, their UX person is using Axure to > communicate interaction designs that are being implemented in the same > Sprint. He just finds this is the best way to communicate the intention of > the design to the rest of the team. If I'm doing UX work as a team member, > I don't tend to use this approach, I tend to do a lot of whiteboard > sessions with the rest of the team. > > This is a team separated across 3 cities and two timezones. The physical > separation just makes things harder. We use the Quantum Entanglement > pattern to compensate ( > https://sites.google.com/a/scrumplop.org/published-patterns/distributed-scrum-pattern-language/quantum-entanglement > ). > > *Deliverables?* > > We do story mapping to help rapidly create the Product Backlog and produce > user stories rather than do extensive Spikes or Sprint 0 ( > http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/10/07/jeff-patton-story-mapping-for-ux-practitioners-tying-agile-and-ux-together/ > ) > > We don't do wireframes as deliverables, but use them to communicate and > clarify design within the team. It also helps keep us focussed in terms of > what was suggested. > > We do Pragmatic Personas ( > http://www.stickyminds.com/article/pragmatic-personas) to help our user > stories and the Increment be user-focussed. > > We do user journeys to help communicate where Epics, Features and User > Stories fit into the user experience. > > We tend to update our documentation as we go as part of the Definition of > Done. This means all systems, data architecture and UX doco get updated in > an iterative fashion each Sprint as part of the Increment (production > ready, working software). > > *Roles* > > In terms of roles, I find that a Senior UX person can be an excellent Scrum > Product Owner as can a Senior BA. A person with good UX experience can also > be a greate Scrum Master because it can help the team focus on slicing user > stories to best represent a minimal viable (lovable) product (MVP) (not > that MVP is not supposed to be just minimal but importantly viable ... to > whom is often the issue. It's not minimal and viable for the team, it is > for the end-user). Apart from Scrum's 3 roles (Scrum Master, Product Owner > and Team), we don't have other formal roles. We don't even have a dev or > test "lead" role let alone a "ux designer" role. > > *War Stories* > > I used to employ the parallel pattern from Lynn Miller ( > http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html). > The UX people always seem to get ahead of their teams, waste always results > (Lean would classify it as "over production"), and while there was > coordination there was little deep discussion and collaboration. The former > is important to note because you could interpret as an anti-pattern. The > Sprint 0 required to get work going is also considered an anti-pattern by > most scrum coaches and trainers. > > *Tools* > > I seem to end up using with Jira Agile or LeanKit. I don't find them useful > or as adaptable as a physical Kanban board though. > > M > > > > On 21 March 2015 at 05:33, Tom Donehower wrote: > >> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for product >> development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if at all? >> >> I'm trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit >> in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. >> >> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. >> >> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like >> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. >> >> -- >> -Tom >> ------------ >> 2015 IA Summit >> April 22-26, 2015 >> Minneapolis, MN >> ----- >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> ________________________________________ >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >> > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From tdonehower at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 15:35:22 2015 From: tdonehower at gmail.com (Thomas Donehower) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:35:22 -0700 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jonathan, You mention below "such sprints developers wouldn't be coding." Doesn't that go against the principe of each sprint yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example? > On Mar 21, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > > "... they create an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint." > > I assume this only really works when the team members can all (or > mostly) do the UX and VD work as well their other roles. By "UX work", > I mean things like user research, prototyping, visual and interaction > design, etc. This would mean that during such sprints, developers > wouldn't be coding (other than perhaps looking at technical debt or > bug fixes from the last sprint). The companies you mention also have > mature products (or at least brands) already, which makes it less > likely that the visual design, if not the interaction design, would go > off the rails. If you're a startup, things would be rather different I > would suppose. > > One of the major problems I've found with sprint-based activity is > when team members can't (or won't) do UX work because they're working > to deliver their part on stories from a previous sprint. I take it > that you prevent this by making sure all stories are done in a single > sprint, is that right? Does that not lead to endless discussions about > how to cut stories down to fit though? > > Interesting also that you say that a UX person might be the product > owner or scrum master (they're very different roles in orthodox scrum, > of course). Assuming UX designers have the necessary seniority in the > organisation to take the place of product manager, I would think > having UX in that position would lead to large "sprint zeros", no? > > Jonathan > > > > >> On 21 March 2015 at 06:36, Matthew Hodgson wrote: >> I used to be a UX practitioner, then I started using agile methods to >> deliver products (about 10 years ago). Now I'm an Agile Coach (for the last >> 6 years. Scrum, Lean and Kanban are my fav methods) >> >> *Where does UX / Visual Design fit into Scrum?* >> >> If you look at companies like eBay, Yahoo, Atlassian or even Spofity, the >> agile team does all the design (including user-experience and visual >> design) as well as development and testing. They plan together, they create >> an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint. Typically, as a >> result, there is some sort of UX skilled person as an integrated part of >> the team. This is also my preference for teaching teams to work in agile >> ways. >> >> I find this highly collaborative approach empowers the whole team to take >> control of the design themselves. That's not to say that they don't design >> within a set of standards or guidelines, though. E.g. within WCAG 2.0 AA, >> or a visual branding style guide. These standards form part of their >> Definition of Done. When scaling across large numbers of team, this >> 'guidance' becomes very handy. I find that the guidance that the SAFe guys >> are producing in the area of UX and scale quite useful. >> http://www.scaledagileframework.com/ux/ >> >> With one team that I'm coaching now, their UX person is using Axure to >> communicate interaction designs that are being implemented in the same >> Sprint. He just finds this is the best way to communicate the intention of >> the design to the rest of the team. If I'm doing UX work as a team member, >> I don't tend to use this approach, I tend to do a lot of whiteboard >> sessions with the rest of the team. >> >> This is a team separated across 3 cities and two timezones. The physical >> separation just makes things harder. We use the Quantum Entanglement >> pattern to compensate ( >> https://sites.google.com/a/scrumplop.org/published-patterns/distributed-scrum-pattern-language/quantum-entanglement >> ). >> >> *Deliverables?* >> >> We do story mapping to help rapidly create the Product Backlog and produce >> user stories rather than do extensive Spikes or Sprint 0 ( >> http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/10/07/jeff-patton-story-mapping-for-ux-practitioners-tying-agile-and-ux-together/ >> ) >> >> We don't do wireframes as deliverables, but use them to communicate and >> clarify design within the team. It also helps keep us focussed in terms of >> what was suggested. >> >> We do Pragmatic Personas ( >> http://www.stickyminds.com/article/pragmatic-personas) to help our user >> stories and the Increment be user-focussed. >> >> We do user journeys to help communicate where Epics, Features and User >> Stories fit into the user experience. >> >> We tend to update our documentation as we go as part of the Definition of >> Done. This means all systems, data architecture and UX doco get updated in >> an iterative fashion each Sprint as part of the Increment (production >> ready, working software). >> >> *Roles* >> >> In terms of roles, I find that a Senior UX person can be an excellent Scrum >> Product Owner as can a Senior BA. A person with good UX experience can also >> be a greate Scrum Master because it can help the team focus on slicing user >> stories to best represent a minimal viable (lovable) product (MVP) (not >> that MVP is not supposed to be just minimal but importantly viable ... to >> whom is often the issue. It's not minimal and viable for the team, it is >> for the end-user). Apart from Scrum's 3 roles (Scrum Master, Product Owner >> and Team), we don't have other formal roles. We don't even have a dev or >> test "lead" role let alone a "ux designer" role. >> >> *War Stories* >> >> I used to employ the parallel pattern from Lynn Miller ( >> http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html). >> The UX people always seem to get ahead of their teams, waste always results >> (Lean would classify it as "over production"), and while there was >> coordination there was little deep discussion and collaboration. The former >> is important to note because you could interpret as an anti-pattern. The >> Sprint 0 required to get work going is also considered an anti-pattern by >> most scrum coaches and trainers. >> >> *Tools* >> >> I seem to end up using with Jira Agile or LeanKit. I don't find them useful >> or as adaptable as a physical Kanban board though. >> >> M >> >> >> >>> On 21 March 2015 at 05:33, Tom Donehower wrote: >>> >>> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for product >>> development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if at all? >>> >>> I'm trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit >>> in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. >>> >>> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like >>> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. >>> >>> -- >>> -Tom >>> ------------ >>> 2015 IA Summit >>> April 22-26, 2015 >>> Minneapolis, MN >>> ----- >>> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >>> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >>> >>> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >>> ________________________________________ >>> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >>> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >> ------------ >> 2015 IA Summit >> April 22-26, 2015 >> Minneapolis, MN >> ----- >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> ________________________________________ >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l From skot at penguinstorm.com Sat Mar 21 15:54:41 2015 From: skot at penguinstorm.com (Skot Nelson) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:54:41 -0700 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58228116-2087-4218-87F9-70720C4AAEF3@penguinstorm.com> Yes. There notion that "every sprint results in production ready code" seems antithetical to agile itself. -- Skot Nelson http://www.penguinstorm.com/ twitter. penguinstorm > On Mar 21, 2015, at 12:35, Thomas Donehower wrote: > > print yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example From jonathan at bakerbates.com Sat Mar 21 18:05:29 2015 From: jonathan at bakerbates.com (Jonathan Baker-Bates) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 22:05:29 +0000 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: <58228116-2087-4218-87F9-70720C4AAEF3@penguinstorm.com> References: <58228116-2087-4218-87F9-70720C4AAEF3@penguinstorm.com> Message-ID: @Skot - I wouldn't go as far to say it was antithetical. The Agile Principles say the delivery of working software should be "frequent" and that it should be the "primary measure of progress". But I know what you mean. Agile should be free to do what's appropriate, really. @Thomas: As you can probably tell, there are some difficulties with scrum orthodoxy when it comes to UX :-) I think this is because agile methods (not just scrum but most others as well) attempt to solve problems that UX designers don't really have - or at last don't have to nearly the same extent as developers have. UX isn't reducible in the way software is, and certainly the "founding fathers" of scrum weren't thinking about UX when they formulated their manifesto - the term "customer" is the 1980's meaning: somebody who pays for the software to be built. Here's the famous "principles" page: http://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html (the background photo texture - QED). I think there's a world of difference between writing code that runs on computers, and creating things that run in people's heads. Because of this, I think it's unfair on both designers and developers to adopt the same methods. Were I to join a development team who had adopted scrum, I would not discourage them, but equally I would not work exclusively on their terms. It wouldn't be worth us all paying the the price for that later if I did. Jonathan On 21 March 2015 at 19:54, Skot Nelson wrote: > Yes. > > There notion that "every sprint results in production ready code" seems antithetical to agile itself. > -- > Skot Nelson > http://www.penguinstorm.com/ > twitter. penguinstorm > >> On Mar 21, 2015, at 12:35, Thomas Donehower wrote: >> >> print yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From skot at penguinstorm.com Sat Mar 21 18:12:11 2015 From: skot at penguinstorm.com (Skot Nelson) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 15:12:11 -0700 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <58228116-2087-4218-87F9-70720C4AAEF3@penguinstorm.com> Message-ID: <13BAD93B-F5B7-4B55-AA32-D931077A0B58@penguinstorm.com> Right. "Working" and "Production Ready" are totally different things. I always have the former, but it takes many sprints to get to the latter. -- Skot Nelson http://www.penguinstorm.com/ twitter. penguinstorm > On Mar 21, 2015, at 15:05, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > > say the delivery of working software should be "frequent From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 18:21:36 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?bWFnaWEzZUBnbWFpbC5jb20=?=) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 09:21:36 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] =?utf-8?q?Agile=2C_Scrum_and_UX=3F?= Message-ID: <550deef2.451f460a.4ceb.1ba9@mx.google.com> Scrum's Sprints don't have to focus on software. It can be used to deliver anything that the Product Owner dedices is of value. A whole Sprint's Increment may just be dedicated to learning with 'knowledge products'. The idea behind 'production ready' is that what ever is created is fully complete within the confines of the Sprint to what ever standard the quality/satisfaction criteria (Definition of Done) specifies. Things that are not software have been delivered using Scrum * The SAAB Gripen fighter jet was made with Scrum. * The wikispeed car I've delivered UX consulting recommendations papers using Scrum whose tram was only ux people. Each Increment consisted of 'production ready' personas, tree structures and prototypes because that was the outcome sought by the Product Owner by the client. These would be used much later to help guide a web project. M Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "Skot Nelson" To: "SIG Information Architecture" Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? Date: Sun, Mar 22, 2015 6:54 AM Yes. There notion that "every sprint results in production ready code" seems antithetical to agile itself. -- Skot Nelson http://www.penguinstorm.com/ twitter. penguinstorm > On Mar 21, 2015, at 12:35, Thomas Donehower wrote: > > print yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example ------------ 2015 IA Summit April 22-26, 2015 Minneapolis, MN ----- When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. *Plain text, please; NO Attachments Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ ________________________________________ Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l From jonathan at bakerbates.com Sat Mar 21 18:36:18 2015 From: jonathan at bakerbates.com (Jonathan Baker-Bates) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 22:36:18 +0000 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: <550deef2.451f460a.4ceb.1ba9@mx.google.com> References: <550deef2.451f460a.4ceb.1ba9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: As a one-time Agile Alliance Certified Scrum Master, I would say that as long as both the pigs and the chickens all agree with the definition of "done", then that's fine. However, the default in scrum is always to produce production ready *code* (not wireframes or personas) at the end of every sprint, and from the very first sprint. See antipattern 16 (from the standard texts on the subject): http://www.agileadvice.com/2011/12/05/referenceinformation/24-common-scrum-pitfalls-summarized/ ... and of course the endless debates that produces! https://www.scrum.org/Forums/aft/1273 But we digress here. @Tom: are we helping at all, or should we just can it? Jonathan On 21 March 2015 at 22:21, magia3e at gmail.com wrote: > Scrum's Sprints don't have to focus on software. It can be used to deliver anything that the Product Owner dedices is of value. A whole Sprint's Increment may just be dedicated to learning with 'knowledge products'. > > The idea behind 'production ready' is that what ever is created is fully complete within the confines of the Sprint to what ever standard the quality/satisfaction criteria (Definition of Done) specifies. > > Things that are not software have been delivered using Scrum > > * The SAAB Gripen fighter jet was made with Scrum. > > * The wikispeed car > > I've delivered UX consulting recommendations papers using Scrum whose tram was only ux people. Each Increment consisted of 'production ready' personas, tree structures and prototypes because that was the outcome sought by the Product Owner by the client. These would be used much later to help guide a web project. > > M > > > Sent from my HTC > > ----- Reply message ----- > From: "Skot Nelson" > To: "SIG Information Architecture" > Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? > Date: Sun, Mar 22, 2015 6:54 AM > > Yes. > > There notion that "every sprint results in production ready code" seems antithetical to agile itself. > -- > Skot Nelson > http://www.penguinstorm.com/ > twitter. penguinstorm > >> On Mar 21, 2015, at 12:35, Thomas Donehower wrote: >> >> print yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 18:42:58 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?bWFnaWEzZUBnbWFpbC5jb20=?=) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 09:42:58 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] =?utf-8?q?Agile=2C_Scrum_and_UX=3F?= Message-ID: <550df3f4.a272440a.0e7e.7d74@mx.google.com> Getting *all* the work needed to deliver a user story, from analysis and design thru to development and testing requires 'small' sized user stories so that the work fits into a single Sprint. The slicing method depends on a discussion between the Product Owner and the Team with the resultant slices just being smaller user stories. The order is negotiated between the Team and the PO. In a normal software project each user story will be a small feature-like element. Some of those slices will likely require more UX effort, some less, some none at all. But each slice will represent something that is of value to the Product Owner. A wireframe or prototype as the end result of a user story ia only likely to be 'of value' if it helps clarify some high risk unknown that will be looked at in a later Sprint. Architecture is some times tackled this way. Its often referred to as a Spike. The Team collectively decide how they will tackle their Sprint Goal and the Increment together. They also decide how much work they take on. But the Product Owner still has the final say in terms of whether their approach represents value. If everyone is going to sit around and do nothing until the UX work is complete that's obviously not of value The Scrum Master's role in this is to help the team work out a plan of attack and ensure that the team doesn't "waterfall their sprints" http://www.scaledagileframework.com/sprint-execution/ When UX work starts at the beginning of a Sprint -- prototyping, interaction design, wireframes etc - is going on, I often find other team members are doing things like: * Writing test scripts * Engaging business stakeholders, clients, end users face-to-face to clarify functional requirements * Doing cross a functional pairing with the UX guy to understand the interaction design and give feedback on areas where the technology is limited * Analyzing requirements for that user story * Doing technical design for that user story * Researching what the coding community says about the features in the user story * Doing the back end components of that user story Or * Delivering other user stories that have no real UX components The Scrum Master makes.sure there is a plan of attack each day at the Daily Scrum and ensures everyone is collaborating toward the team's goal. No one is idle. ----- Reply message ----- From: "Thomas Donehower" To: "SIG Information Architecture" Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? Date: Sun, Mar 22, 2015 6:35 AM Jonathan, You mention below "such sprints developers wouldn't be coding." Doesn't that go against the principe of each sprint yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example? > On Mar 21, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > > "... they create an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint." > > I assume this only really works when the team members can all (or > mostly) do the UX and VD work as well their other roles. By "UX work", > I mean things like user research, prototyping, visual and interaction > design, etc. This would mean that during such sprints, developers > wouldn't be coding (other than perhaps looking at technical debt or > bug fixes from the last sprint). The companies you mention also have > mature products (or at least brands) already, which makes it less > likely that the visual design, if not the interaction design, would go > off the rails. If you're a startup, things would be rather different I > would suppose. > > One of the major problems I've found with sprint-based activity is > when team members can't (or won't) do UX work because they're working > to deliver their part on stories from a previous sprint. I take it > that you prevent this by making sure all stories are done in a single > sprint, is that right? Does that not lead to endless discussions about > how to cut stories down to fit though? > > Interesting also that you say that a UX person might be the product > owner or scrum master (they're very different roles in orthodox scrum, > of course). Assuming UX designers have the necessary seniority in the > organisation to take the place of product manager, I would think > having UX in that position would lead to large "sprint zeros", no? > > Jonathan > > > > >> On 21 March 2015 at 06:36, Matthew Hodgson wrote: >> I used to be a UX practitioner, then I started using agile methods to >> deliver products (about 10 years ago). Now I'm an Agile Coach (for the last >> 6 years. Scrum, Lean and Kanban are my fav methods) >> >> *Where does UX / Visual Design fit into Scrum?* >> >> If you look at companies like eBay, Yahoo, Atlassian or even Spofity, the >> agile team does all the design (including user-experience and visual >> design) as well as development and testing. They plan together, they create >> an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint. Typically, as a >> result, there is some sort of UX skilled person as an integrated part of >> the team. This is also my preference for teaching teams to work in agile >> ways. >> >> I find this highly collaborative approach empowers the whole team to take >> control of the design themselves. That's not to say that they don't design >> within a set of standards or guidelines, though. E.g. within WCAG 2.0 AA, >> or a visual branding style guide. These standards form part of their >> Definition of Done. When scaling across large numbers of team, this >> 'guidance' becomes very handy. I find that the guidance that the SAFe guys >> are producing in the area of UX and scale quite useful. >> http://www.scaledagileframework.com/ux/ >> >> With one team that I'm coaching now, their UX person is using Axure to >> communicate interaction designs that are being implemented in the same >> Sprint. He just finds this is the best way to communicate the intention of >> the design to the rest of the team. If I'm doing UX work as a team member, >> I don't tend to use this approach, I tend to do a lot of whiteboard >> sessions with the rest of the team. >> >> This is a team separated across 3 cities and two timezones. The physical >> separation just makes things harder. We use the Quantum Entanglement >> pattern to compensate ( >> https://sites.google.com/a/scrumplop.org/published-patterns/distributed-scrum-pattern-language/quantum-entanglement >> ). >> >> *Deliverables?* >> >> We do story mapping to help rapidly create the Product Backlog and produce >> user stories rather than do extensive Spikes or Sprint 0 ( >> http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/10/07/jeff-patton-story-mapping-for-ux-practitioners-tying-agile-and-ux-together/ >> ) >> >> We don't do wireframes as deliverables, but use them to communicate and >> clarify design within the team. It also helps keep us focussed in terms of >> what was suggested. >> >> We do Pragmatic Personas ( >> http://www.stickyminds.com/article/pragmatic-personas) to help our user >> stories and the Increment be user-focussed. >> >> We do user journeys to help communicate where Epics, Features and User >> Stories fit into the user experience. >> >> We tend to update our documentation as we go as part of the Definition of >> Done. This means all systems, data architecture and UX doco get updated in >> an iterative fashion each Sprint as part of the Increment (production >> ready, working software). >> >> *Roles* >> >> In terms of roles, I find that a Senior UX person can be an excellent Scrum >> Product Owner as can a Senior BA. A person with good UX experience can also >> be a greate Scrum Master because it can help the team focus on slicing user >> stories to best represent a minimal viable (lovable) product (MVP) (not >> that MVP is not supposed to be just minimal but importantly viable ... to >> whom is often the issue. It's not minimal and viable for the team, it is >> for the end-user). Apart from Scrum's 3 roles (Scrum Master, Product Owner >> and Team), we don't have other formal roles. We don't even have a dev or >> test "lead" role let alone a "ux designer" role. >> >> *War Stories* >> >> I used to employ the parallel pattern from Lynn Miller ( >> http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html). >> The UX people always seem to get ahead of their teams, waste always results >> (Lean would classify it as "over production"), and while there was >> coordination there was little deep discussion and collaboration. The former >> is important to note because you could interpret as an anti-pattern. The >> Sprint 0 required to get work going is also considered an anti-pattern by >> most scrum coaches and trainers. >> >> *Tools* >> >> I seem to end up using with Jira Agile or LeanKit. I don't find them useful >> or as adaptable as a physical Kanban board though. >> >> M >> >> >> >>> On 21 March 2015 at 05:33, Tom Donehower wrote: >>> >>> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for product >>> development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if at all? >>> >>> I'm trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit >>> in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. >>> >>> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like >>> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. >>> >>> -- >>> -Tom >>> ------------ >>> 2015 IA Summit >>> April 22-26, 2015 >>> Minneapolis, MN >>> ----- >>> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >>> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >>> >>> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >>> ________________________________________ >>> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >>> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >> ------------ >> 2015 IA Summit >> April 22-26, 2015 >> Minneapolis, MN >> ----- >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> ________________________________________ >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l ------------ 2015 IA Summit April 22-26, 2015 Minneapolis, MN ----- When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. *Plain text, please; NO Attachments Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ ________________________________________ Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 18:55:26 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?bWFnaWEzZUBnbWFpbC5jb20=?=) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 09:55:26 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] =?utf-8?q?Agile=2C_Scrum_and_UX=3F?= Message-ID: <550df6e1.a68f440a.5c88.7b0a@mx.google.com> > "... they create an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint." > > I assume this only really works when the team members can all (or > mostly) do the UX and VD work as well their other roles. I typically have one UX expert in my team. A few front end and a few back end devs. A tester and a BA. In Scrum, I want team members who are willing to help each other and do what ever is needed to achieve the goal. This is why Sprint Planning for a 2 week Sprint is typically 4 hours in length -- 2 hours to hear *what* is required and 2 hours to figure out *how* to work best to deliver it. If the project is about building a website, then the focus of sprints will nearly always be features that are production ready. This means my UX guys are often thinkers who do a lot of their work in short bursts with whiteboards and then have conversations with other team members to discuss how to implement it. User research for the next few upcoming Sprints consume about 10% of the current sprint. User research then builds over Sprints to help inform the overall product design. System architects call this emergent design and have been working this way for a while. That said, all team members in Scrum spend up 10% of the Sprint looking at upcoming Sprints to get ideas about how they might tackle future work and clarify requirements. Its called Backlog Refinement. M ----- Reply message ----- From: "Thomas Donehower" To: "SIG Information Architecture" Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? Date: Sun, Mar 22, 2015 6:35 AM Jonathan, You mention below "such sprints developers wouldn't be coding." Doesn't that go against the principe of each sprint yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example? > On Mar 21, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > > "... they create an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint." > > I assume this only really works when the team members can all (or > mostly) do the UX and VD work as well their other roles. By "UX work", > I mean things like user research, prototyping, visual and interaction > design, etc. This would mean that during such sprints, developers > wouldn't be coding (other than perhaps looking at technical debt or > bug fixes from the last sprint). The companies you mention also have > mature products (or at least brands) already, which makes it less > likely that the visual design, if not the interaction design, would go > off the rails. If you're a startup, things would be rather different I > would suppose. > > One of the major problems I've found with sprint-based activity is > when team members can't (or won't) do UX work because they're working > to deliver their part on stories from a previous sprint. I take it > that you prevent this by making sure all stories are done in a single > sprint, is that right? Does that not lead to endless discussions about > how to cut stories down to fit though? > > Interesting also that you say that a UX person might be the product > owner or scrum master (they're very different roles in orthodox scrum, > of course). Assuming UX designers have the necessary seniority in the > organisation to take the place of product manager, I would think > having UX in that position would lead to large "sprint zeros", no? > > Jonathan > > > > >> On 21 March 2015 at 06:36, Matthew Hodgson wrote: >> I used to be a UX practitioner, then I started using agile methods to >> deliver products (about 10 years ago). Now I'm an Agile Coach (for the last >> 6 years. Scrum, Lean and Kanban are my fav methods) >> >> *Where does UX / Visual Design fit into Scrum?* >> >> If you look at companies like eBay, Yahoo, Atlassian or even Spofity, the >> agile team does all the design (including user-experience and visual >> design) as well as development and testing. They plan together, they create >> an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint. Typically, as a >> result, there is some sort of UX skilled person as an integrated part of >> the team. This is also my preference for teaching teams to work in agile >> ways. >> >> I find this highly collaborative approach empowers the whole team to take >> control of the design themselves. That's not to say that they don't design >> within a set of standards or guidelines, though. E.g. within WCAG 2.0 AA, >> or a visual branding style guide. These standards form part of their >> Definition of Done. When scaling across large numbers of team, this >> 'guidance' becomes very handy. I find that the guidance that the SAFe guys >> are producing in the area of UX and scale quite useful. >> http://www.scaledagileframework.com/ux/ >> >> With one team that I'm coaching now, their UX person is using Axure to >> communicate interaction designs that are being implemented in the same >> Sprint. He just finds this is the best way to communicate the intention of >> the design to the rest of the team. If I'm doing UX work as a team member, >> I don't tend to use this approach, I tend to do a lot of whiteboard >> sessions with the rest of the team. >> >> This is a team separated across 3 cities and two timezones. The physical >> separation just makes things harder. We use the Quantum Entanglement >> pattern to compensate ( >> https://sites.google.com/a/scrumplop.org/published-patterns/distributed-scrum-pattern-language/quantum-entanglement >> ). >> >> *Deliverables?* >> >> We do story mapping to help rapidly create the Product Backlog and produce >> user stories rather than do extensive Spikes or Sprint 0 ( >> http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/10/07/jeff-patton-story-mapping-for-ux-practitioners-tying-agile-and-ux-together/ >> ) >> >> We don't do wireframes as deliverables, but use them to communicate and >> clarify design within the team. It also helps keep us focussed in terms of >> what was suggested. >> >> We do Pragmatic Personas ( >> http://www.stickyminds.com/article/pragmatic-personas) to help our user >> stories and the Increment be user-focussed. >> >> We do user journeys to help communicate where Epics, Features and User >> Stories fit into the user experience. >> >> We tend to update our documentation as we go as part of the Definition of >> Done. This means all systems, data architecture and UX doco get updated in >> an iterative fashion each Sprint as part of the Increment (production >> ready, working software). >> >> *Roles* >> >> In terms of roles, I find that a Senior UX person can be an excellent Scrum >> Product Owner as can a Senior BA. A person with good UX experience can also >> be a greate Scrum Master because it can help the team focus on slicing user >> stories to best represent a minimal viable (lovable) product (MVP) (not >> that MVP is not supposed to be just minimal but importantly viable ... to >> whom is often the issue. It's not minimal and viable for the team, it is >> for the end-user). Apart from Scrum's 3 roles (Scrum Master, Product Owner >> and Team), we don't have other formal roles. We don't even have a dev or >> test "lead" role let alone a "ux designer" role. >> >> *War Stories* >> >> I used to employ the parallel pattern from Lynn Miller ( >> http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html). >> The UX people always seem to get ahead of their teams, waste always results >> (Lean would classify it as "over production"), and while there was >> coordination there was little deep discussion and collaboration. The former >> is important to note because you could interpret as an anti-pattern. The >> Sprint 0 required to get work going is also considered an anti-pattern by >> most scrum coaches and trainers. >> >> *Tools* >> >> I seem to end up using with Jira Agile or LeanKit. I don't find them useful >> or as adaptable as a physical Kanban board though. >> >> M >> >> >> >>> On 21 March 2015 at 05:33, Tom Donehower wrote: >>> >>> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for product >>> development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if at all? >>> >>> I'm trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit >>> in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. >>> >>> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like >>> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. >>> >>> -- >>> -Tom >>> ------------ >>> 2015 IA Summit >>> April 22-26, 2015 >>> Minneapolis, MN >>> ----- >>> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >>> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >>> >>> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >>> ________________________________________ >>> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >>> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >> ------------ >> 2015 IA Summit >> April 22-26, 2015 >> Minneapolis, MN >> ----- >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> ________________________________________ >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l ------------ 2015 IA Summit April 22-26, 2015 Minneapolis, MN ----- When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. *Plain text, please; NO Attachments Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ ________________________________________ Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 19:04:02 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:04:02 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <550deef2.451f460a.4ceb.1ba9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: References to "pigs and chickens" has long been since removed from the Scrum Guide :) But it is more the domain of the Product Owner, not the Team. That's not to say, though, that a discussion can't be had on the consequences of too many criteria in a DOD and that perhaps a team should be aiming for WCAG 2.0 A on a first pass to ensure that a specific user story fits into a Sprint. On 22 March 2015 at 09:36, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > As a one-time Agile Alliance Certified Scrum Master, I would say that > as long as both the pigs and the chickens all agree with the > definition of "done", then that's fine. However, the default in scrum > is always to produce production ready *code* (not wireframes or > personas) at the end of every sprint, and from the very first sprint. > See antipattern 16 (from the standard texts on the subject): > > > http://www.agileadvice.com/2011/12/05/referenceinformation/24-common-scrum-pitfalls-summarized/ > > ... and of course the endless debates that produces! > > https://www.scrum.org/Forums/aft/1273 > > But we digress here. > > @Tom: are we helping at all, or should we just can it? > > Jonathan > > > > > On 21 March 2015 at 22:21, magia3e at gmail.com wrote: > > Scrum's Sprints don't have to focus on software. It can be used to > deliver anything that the Product Owner dedices is of value. A whole > Sprint's Increment may just be dedicated to learning with 'knowledge > products'. > > > > The idea behind 'production ready' is that what ever is created is fully > complete within the confines of the Sprint to what ever standard the > quality/satisfaction criteria (Definition of Done) specifies. > > > > Things that are not software have been delivered using Scrum > > > > * The SAAB Gripen fighter jet was made with Scrum. > > > > * The wikispeed car > > > > I've delivered UX consulting recommendations papers using Scrum whose > tram was only ux people. Each Increment consisted of 'production ready' > personas, tree structures and prototypes because that was the outcome > sought by the Product Owner by the client. These would be used much later > to help guide a web project. > > > > M > > > > > > Sent from my HTC > > > > ----- Reply message ----- > > From: "Skot Nelson" > > To: "SIG Information Architecture" > > Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? > > Date: Sun, Mar 22, 2015 6:54 AM > > > > Yes. > > > > There notion that "every sprint results in production ready code" seems > antithetical to agile itself. > > -- > > Skot Nelson > > http://www.penguinstorm.com/ > > twitter. penguinstorm > > > >> On Mar 21, 2015, at 12:35, Thomas Donehower > wrote: > >> > >> print yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be > sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example > > > > ------------ > > 2015 IA Summit > > April 22-26, 2015 > > Minneapolis, MN > > ----- > > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > > ________________________________________ > > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > > ------------ > > 2015 IA Summit > > April 22-26, 2015 > > Minneapolis, MN > > ----- > > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > > ________________________________________ > > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > > > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 19:10:10 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:10:10 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <1E744CB3-98A8-4725-B644-593860515B9F@quietstars.com> Message-ID: There are lots of reasons why an agile adoption fails. http://www.versionone.com/pdf/2013-state-of-agile-survey.pdf It's not because Scrum doesn't work, it definitely does. 22% of failure is born out of a lack of understanding about agile and why it works the way it does. External cultural and political reasons comrprise about 30% of reasons why agile projects fail. Getting an experienced coach who knows how best to help an organisation with this change is key to success IMHO. On 21 March 2015 at 08:06, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > My experience would indicate that you're correct. In larger > organisations, I think scrum is probably doomed to fail because > technical departments usually don't have the influence needed to push > the agenda needed for scrum to work. For example, scrum is basically > about increasing quality, and isn't necessarily about increasing speed > (in fact projects often start slower while risks are flushed out at > the start). However, we found we had to present scum as a way of > accelerating development in order to get the CEO to agree to try it. > My unease about that deception turned out to be justified. > > > > On 20 March 2015 at 20:36, Dave Epstein wrote: > > I find that it can and does work (we use it at my job) but it requires > the > > entire organization to buy in - from how projects are defined and how > they > > are rolled out. That's the hard part. > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Jonathan Baker-Bates < > > jonathan at bakerbates.com> wrote: > > > >> Also a bit dated being from 2010, but here's my experience from the UX > >> end of things: > >> > >> http://webtorque.org/scrum-didnt-work-for-us/ > >> > >> I have no doubt that Scrum works. It?s just that it works for other > people. > >> > >> > >> On 20 March 2015 at 20:02, Adrian Howard > wrote: > >> > > >> >> On 20 Mar 2015, at 18:33, Tom Donehower > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for > >> product development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process > if > >> at all? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> I?m trying to understand where these other roles and their > deliverables > >> fit in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. > >> >> > >> >> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. > >> > > >> > This is a few years old but still a relevant read > >> > > >> > > >> > http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html > >> > > >> > Unfortunately it?s really one of those it-depends questions I?m > afraid. > >> My advice would change quite a bit depending on the UX folk involved, > the > >> team, how good they are at actually doing Scrum, etc. > >> > > >> > For example at the more generative end (user research, interviewing, > >> etc.) there is a strong overlap between UX and the Product Owner role in > >> Scrum. So I?ve seen some teams work very effectively by having a UX > person > >> basically fill that role, or be a heavy support role for the actual PO. > >> > > >> > On the other hand many of the most effective agile teams I?ve worked > >> with tend to embed UX in the team. The embedded role tends towards > doing a > >> lot more facilitating of UX work by the whole team, as well as doing > >> hands-on work. > >> > > >> > If you can talk a bit more about any particular issues you?re having I > >> might be able to give some more specific advice. > >> > > >> > For further reading have a Google around "Agile UX" & "Lean UX". The > >> Lean UX stuff grew out of folk applying UXish things in Lean Startup > >> context ? but it?s bigger than that now, being used in lots of > non-startup > >> contexts, and is a good fit for agile. > >> > > >> > Book wise I?d at least glance at these: > >> > > >> > * Agile User Experience Design, Diana Brown - This is great for UX > folk > >> wanting to grok agile more, and has several case studies on agile/ux > teams. > >> However, it doesn?t really dive deep into specific Agile UX practices. > Good > >> overview book. Especially for non-agile UX folk. > >> > > >> > * Agile Experience Design, Lindsay Ratcliffe & Marc McNeill - Much > more > >> of a toolbox of techniques/approaches book. The last third-ish of the > book > >> is basically a list of techniques. There?s some stuff I?d niggle with in > >> here. Especially on some of the ways they talk about Agile - but it?s > kinda > >> hair-splitting stuff if you?re just getting started ;-) > >> > > >> > * User-Centered Agile Methods, Hugh Beyer ? This is more of a > UX-person > >> coming to Agile book, than an Agile folk adopting UX book (if you see > what > >> I mean). My personal approach is a little bit different from Hugh?s - > but > >> there?s definitely stuff worth thinking about here. If you?re dealing > with > >> a more traditional UCD group then this would be very approachable for > them. > >> > > >> > * Lean UX, Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden - "The" book on Lean UX. Good > >> introductory read on Lean UX, but can only do so much for the size of > book. > >> It?s also a bit light on some of the more generative user research > >> approaches from my personal perspective. Still a useful read though. > >> > > >> > * UX for Lean Startups, Laura Klein - I think this fills some gaps in > >> Jeff & Josh?s Lean UX book. Especially on the user research side. I also > >> think it?s a *much* more approachable read to non-UX folk. Something > that > >> you can give to the rest of the team. > >> > > >> > * Lean Customer Development, Cindy Alvarez - Again, something very > >> approachable to non-UX folk in language and tone. Like Jeff, Josh?s & > >> Laura?s books it doesn?t spend a lot of time talking about integration > with > >> agile teams specifically, but the techniques fit in with agile > approaches > >> very well (indeed, agile approaches are required for this sort of UX > >> approach to work well.). This is more relevant to PO folk. > >> > > >> > Just on the topic of usability testing, the stuff in Steve Krug?s > >> "Rocket Surgery Made Easy" fits in really nicely with agile - and very > >> approachable for non-UX folk. > >> > > >> > I?d also keep an eye on Tomer Sharon?s upcoming Lean User Research > book > >> from Rosenfeld > >> http://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/lean-user-research-product-development/ > >> > > >> > Outside of books I?d also take a poke at these two online communities. > >> > > >> > * Balanced Team (balancedteam.org) - This community grew out of some > UX > >> and Agile folk trying to play nice together, but has a bit of a broader > >> scope now. They do online/offline meetups, conferences, and the mailing > >> list is as useful as respectful as this one is IMHO. I first heard about > >> the stuff Janice Fraser et al were doing around Lean UX here, long > before > >> it was cool and sexy ;-) > >> > > >> > * https://groups.yahoo.com/groups/agile-usability/info - This is > AFAIK > >> the oldest community of folk that have been poking at Agile & UX. > Almost no > >> traffic now, but has a bunch of smart folk subscribed and some gold in > the > >> archives. > >> > > >> > To be honest I think plugging into the online communities around agile > >> ux & lean ux will be more helpful to you than the books. Despite folk > >> having been poking around this for more than ten years now, not enough > of > >> it has been written down. > >> > > >> > Also, while I don?t really actively curate these anymore you may find > >> some of the links on > >> > > >> > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:leanux > >> > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agileux > >> > https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agile+ux > >> > > >> > of interest (although the relevance to the topic may, on occasion, > need > >> filtering through my brain first ;-) > >> > > >> > > >> > Oh yes. I may put out a newsletter on the topic occasionally that > might > >> be useful. Previous issues / subscription at http://is.gd/HNz5TN > >> > > >> > > >> >> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend > >> like > >> >> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. > >> > > >> > Have happily used Pivotal, Jira & Trello on projects. Have also worked > >> on projects where they?ve been a terrible hinderance. They?re just > tools. I > >> tend towards starting with post-it notes or index cards, and move to > >> digital tools if/when necessary. > >> > > >> > Hope that helps. > >> > > >> > Cheers, > >> > > >> > Adrian > >> > > >> > -- > >> > adrianh at quietstars.com / +44 (0)7752 419080 / @adrianh / > quietstars.com > >> > (CSSTWP.com the product team certification programme you can trust! > ;-) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------ > >> > 2015 IA Summit > >> > April 22-26, 2015 > >> > Minneapolis, MN > >> > ----- > >> > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > >> > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > >> > > >> > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > >> > ________________________________________ > >> > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > >> > Changes to subscription: > http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > >> > >> ------------ > >> 2015 IA Summit > >> April 22-26, 2015 > >> Minneapolis, MN > >> ----- > >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > >> > >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > >> ________________________________________ > >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > >> > > ------------ > > 2015 IA Summit > > April 22-26, 2015 > > Minneapolis, MN > > ----- > > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > > ________________________________________ > > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 19:19:56 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:19:56 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Many agile projects fail because of misconceptions about roles and responsibilities. A product manager is not the same as a Scrum Product Owner. The same goes for your client or your business stakeholder. They don't care about your agile process and so will break the rules of the process when it suits them. Most product managers I know are too high a level to be a Scrum Product Owner. But yes, the Product Owner gets to say what is produced and its sequence in the Sprints. That requires everyone to understand their role. It requires the Product Owner to work closely with other stakeholders including the product manager. This is why the PO role is very similar in its definition today as the way PMBoK define a PM's role. I never have a Sprint 0. It's an anti-pattern because it never looks like a Sprint. I often work in PRINCE2 environments that require lots of paperwork and setup before a project is allowed to commence, but I do all this work using Scrum. In my current web project it meant 4 Sprints of effort and at the 5th Sprint I onboarded the team -- 3 devs, 1 front end specialist, 1 ux, 1 web content writer. one of the devs is also the SM. I was the PO, but I coached my BA to take over from me as I've had to focus on 'other things'. Anyone can be the PO or the SM, but if you have no experience, training + coaching is essential to creating success. On 22 March 2015 at 03:54, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > "... they create an Increment together that is production ready each > Sprint." > > [snip] > Interesting also that you say that a UX person might be the product > owner or scrum master (they're very different roles in orthodox scrum, > of course). Assuming UX designers have the necessary seniority in the > organisation to take the place of product manager, I would think > having UX in that position would lead to large "sprint zeros", no? > > Jonathan > > From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 19:32:53 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:32:53 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scrum requires all User Stories are done in the Sprint. The Scrum Master's role is to reinforce this rule (they "own" the rules) and its process. Sprint Planning is designed to allow time to have just enough of a discussion to understand the size of a User Story, to break it down, and agree (as a baseline) on how the team will approach its delivery. If UX is required as part of the delivery of the User Story, I'd expect a discussion on how much is needed to create a usable, accessible, lovable result, not a minimal effort as part of an MVP. There are lots of ways to slice a story. Sometimes the team doesn't agree on how. Devs tend to want to separate out the front end from the backend, but this is an anti-pattern. I find having done user journeys or story mapping provides a useful user focussed perspective on slicing. You ultimately want to slice a story so that it represents the smallest unit of value to the user in a way that enables it to be delivered in 1-2 days (in its entirety) by the team. This may mean a page of many features gets broken down into smaller sets of features. If it's clear that there is still no agreement, the SM will park the discussion, the User Story will be put aside til next Sprint, and the team will spend time (Backlog Refinement) doing some analysis and draft design on the User Story until clarity is achieved. Sometimes, as a coach, I end up making the decision on how to best slice a User Story because a team typically has very little experience in knowing how best to do this. There are dozens of patterns to use, but knowing which is a good one to apply (there is never one "best" way) takes experience. Sometimes there might be a User Story left over from a previous Sprint that the team needs to work on, but if the rule of is that all User Stories must be finished in a single Sprint, then Sprint Planning and Backlog Refinement are mechanisms to ensure that all User Stories are sliced into small pieces. This is just application of Batch Theory. On 22 March 2015 at 03:54, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > > One of the major problems I've found with sprint-based activity is > when team members can't (or won't) do UX work because they're working > to deliver their part on stories from a previous sprint. I take it > that you prevent this by making sure all stories are done in a single > sprint, is that right? Does that not lead to endless discussions about > how to cut stories down to fit though? > From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 19:35:01 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:35:01 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @Tom: Some experiences to consider http://zenexmachina.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/ux-working-a-sprint-ahead-is-full-of-fail-work-as-a-single-team-instead/ Matt On 21 March 2015 at 05:33, Tom Donehower wrote: > For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for product > development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if at all? > > I'm trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit > in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. > > Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. > > Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like > Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. > > -- > -Tom > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 19:39:36 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:39:36 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <1E744CB3-98A8-4725-B644-593860515B9F@quietstars.com> Message-ID: Succeeding with Agile is one of my fav books from this perspective. http://www.succeedingwithagile.com/ Change doesn't always have to come from the top-down. Getting buy-in first from the CEO isn't needed in all companies. Getting coaching from a change agent with experience in leading this type of transformation does definitely help though :) On 21 March 2015 at 07:36, Dave Epstein wrote: > I find that it can and does work (we use it at my job) but it requires the > entire organization to buy in - from how projects are defined and how they > are rolled out. That's the hard part. > > From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 19:44:21 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:44:21 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <1E744CB3-98A8-4725-B644-593860515B9F@quietstars.com> Message-ID: @Johnathan: I'm not sure why you feel unease about "accelerating development". There's a lot of good research that indicates when Scrum is done well, its focus on building the right thing and building the thing right, removes about 50% of the rework that is often associated with development projects. The continuous learning also supports removing waste (from a Lean sense ... a lot of my coaching of Scrum is heavily influenced by Lean) and so faster delivery of the right thing to users and clients. My own experience supports this view. Teams ability to deliver gets faster, more efficient, less buggy over as little as 3 months if they have focus and discipline in their Scrum practice. Creating focus and discipline is not as easy as it sounds though :) Scrum is like chess. The rules are simple, but to master it is hard. This is why Scrum Coaches exist :) On 21 March 2015 at 08:06, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > However, we found we had to present scum as a way of > accelerating development in order to get the CEO to agree to try it. > My unease about that deception turned out to be justified. > > From jonathan at bakerbates.com Sat Mar 21 19:45:33 2015 From: jonathan at bakerbates.com (Jonathan Baker-Bates) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 23:45:33 +0000 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @Tom: So in Matt's link you may have an answer to your main question, I think :-) It would be very kind of you to report back on your experiences implementing UX in scrum. Jonathan On 21 March 2015 at 23:35, Matthew Hodgson wrote: > @Tom: Some experiences to consider > > http://zenexmachina.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/ux-working-a-sprint-ahead-is-full-of-fail-work-as-a-single-team-instead/ > > Matt > > > On 21 March 2015 at 05:33, Tom Donehower wrote: > >> For those of you out there who are or have been part of a SCRUM for product >> development, where has UX and visual design fit in the process if at all? >> >> I'm trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit >> in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. >> >> Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. >> >> Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like >> Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. >> >> -- >> -Tom >> ------------ >> 2015 IA Summit >> April 22-26, 2015 >> Minneapolis, MN >> ----- >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> ________________________________________ >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >> > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 19:47:51 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:47:51 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <58228116-2087-4218-87F9-70720C4AAEF3@penguinstorm.com> Message-ID: I'd say that *delivery* is the measure of success. But you are right about working software vs value in terms of its delivery to end-users. This is where I see UX brings a much needed refocussing of how a team works to deliver that value. This is why I feel its important to think about Scrum's Increment in terms of Lean principles. That is, to create value (not just working software). On 22 March 2015 at 09:05, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > @Skot - I wouldn't go as far to say it was antithetical. The Agile > Principles say the delivery of working software should be "frequent" > and that it should be the "primary measure of progress". But I know > what you mean. Agile should be free to do what's appropriate, really. > > @Thomas: As you can probably tell, there are some difficulties with > scrum orthodoxy when it comes to UX :-) I think this is because agile > methods (not just scrum but most others as well) attempt to solve > problems that UX designers don't really have - or at last don't have > to nearly the same extent as developers have. UX isn't reducible in > the way software is, and certainly the "founding fathers" of scrum > weren't thinking about UX when they formulated their manifesto - the > term "customer" is the 1980's meaning: somebody who pays for the > software to be built. Here's the famous "principles" page: > http://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html (the background photo > texture - QED). > > I think there's a world of difference between writing code that runs > on computers, and creating things that run in people's heads. Because > of this, I think it's unfair on both designers and developers to adopt > the same methods. Were I to join a development team who had adopted > scrum, I would not discourage them, but equally I would not work > exclusively on their terms. It wouldn't be worth us all paying the the > price for that later if I did. > > Jonathan > > > > On 21 March 2015 at 19:54, Skot Nelson wrote: > > Yes. > > > > There notion that "every sprint results in production ready code" seems > antithetical to agile itself. > > -- > > Skot Nelson > > http://www.penguinstorm.com/ > > twitter. penguinstorm > > > >> On Mar 21, 2015, at 12:35, Thomas Donehower > wrote: > >> > >> print yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be > sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example > > > > ------------ > > 2015 IA Summit > > April 22-26, 2015 > > Minneapolis, MN > > ----- > > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > > ________________________________________ > > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 19:55:26 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:55:26 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: <13BAD93B-F5B7-4B55-AA32-D931077A0B58@penguinstorm.com> References: <58228116-2087-4218-87F9-70720C4AAEF3@penguinstorm.com> <13BAD93B-F5B7-4B55-AA32-D931077A0B58@penguinstorm.com> Message-ID: @skot: if you're using Scrum that's not supposed to happen. I would be trying to understand and learn why "production ready" isn't working and then rectify it. If this is not happening, then fire your Scrum Master and get one that can help the team learn and fix this problem (continuous learning and improvement is the main way to gauge a Scrum Master's performance). Or, get a Scrum Coach to help identify why this is not occurring and to help the Scrum Master learn how to do this by himself. M On 22 March 2015 at 09:12, Skot Nelson wrote: > Right. "Working" and "Production Ready" are totally different things. > > I always have the former, but it takes many sprints to get to the latter. > > > -- > Skot Nelson > http://www.penguinstorm.com/ > > twitter. penguinstorm > > > On Mar 21, 2015, at 15:05, Jonathan Baker-Bates > wrote: > > > > say the delivery of working software should be "frequent > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From tdonehower at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 20:29:46 2015 From: tdonehower at gmail.com (Thomas Donehower) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 17:29:46 -0700 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: References: <550deef2.451f460a.4ceb.1ba9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <46493236-F1BB-40FE-B4C4-5C5DD389A579@gmail.com> Very helpful. I think the debate and exploration is worth it and encourage anyone to contribute to this discussion. I think the most interesting comment I've seen is the idea that when the agile manifesto was written they did not have UX in mind and over time it seems that looser definitions of agile and agile methods have been adopted to account for this. I also think this points to the idea that every sprint yielding production ready code may not actually yield the best product/software and that there is room for improving or evolving the original thinking. Agree? -Tom > On Mar 21, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > > As a one-time Agile Alliance Certified Scrum Master, I would say that > as long as both the pigs and the chickens all agree with the > definition of "done", then that's fine. However, the default in scrum > is always to produce production ready *code* (not wireframes or > personas) at the end of every sprint, and from the very first sprint. > See antipattern 16 (from the standard texts on the subject): > > http://www.agileadvice.com/2011/12/05/referenceinformation/24-common-scrum-pitfalls-summarized/ > > ... and of course the endless debates that produces! > > https://www.scrum.org/Forums/aft/1273 > > But we digress here. > > @Tom: are we helping at all, or should we just can it? > > Jonathan > > > > >> On 21 March 2015 at 22:21, magia3e at gmail.com wrote: >> Scrum's Sprints don't have to focus on software. It can be used to deliver anything that the Product Owner dedices is of value. A whole Sprint's Increment may just be dedicated to learning with 'knowledge products'. >> >> The idea behind 'production ready' is that what ever is created is fully complete within the confines of the Sprint to what ever standard the quality/satisfaction criteria (Definition of Done) specifies. >> >> Things that are not software have been delivered using Scrum >> >> * The SAAB Gripen fighter jet was made with Scrum. >> >> * The wikispeed car >> >> I've delivered UX consulting recommendations papers using Scrum whose tram was only ux people. Each Increment consisted of 'production ready' personas, tree structures and prototypes because that was the outcome sought by the Product Owner by the client. These would be used much later to help guide a web project. >> >> M >> >> >> Sent from my HTC >> >> ----- Reply message ----- >> From: "Skot Nelson" >> To: "SIG Information Architecture" >> Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? >> Date: Sun, Mar 22, 2015 6:54 AM >> >> Yes. >> >> There notion that "every sprint results in production ready code" seems antithetical to agile itself. >> -- >> Skot Nelson >> http://www.penguinstorm.com/ >> twitter. penguinstorm >> >>> On Mar 21, 2015, at 12:35, Thomas Donehower wrote: >>> >>> print yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example >> >> ------------ >> 2015 IA Summit >> April 22-26, 2015 >> Minneapolis, MN >> ----- >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> ________________________________________ >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l >> ------------ >> 2015 IA Summit >> April 22-26, 2015 >> Minneapolis, MN >> ----- >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments >> >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ >> ________________________________________ >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l From magia3e at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 20:51:40 2015 From: magia3e at gmail.com (Matthew Hodgson) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:51:40 +1100 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? In-Reply-To: <46493236-F1BB-40FE-B4C4-5C5DD389A579@gmail.com> References: <550deef2.451f460a.4ceb.1ba9@mx.google.com> <46493236-F1BB-40FE-B4C4-5C5DD389A579@gmail.com> Message-ID: At the anniversary of the signing of the agile manifesto, they discussed whether there was anything they would change. Overall, they agreed that it was still relevant, but the phrase "working software" is still something that some consider a barrier to its further adoption into disciplines other than software development. That said, much of "agile" is very old. Even Scrum was born out of product development and the article in the Harvard Business Review 'The New New Product Development Game". Now there are dozens of agile methods. Some continue to evolve over time. The important thing is to remember that agile isn't one thing. It's more important to ensure that the right method is selected for the right team, its environment and its needs. This is one reason I changed from a primary focus in my professional life from UX to Agile. There's a lot that the agile camp can learn from UX. I think the community is better from that mix of perspectives. M On 22 March 2015 at 11:29, Thomas Donehower wrote: > Very helpful. I think the debate and exploration is worth it and encourage > anyone to contribute to this discussion. I think the most interesting > comment I've seen is the idea that when the agile manifesto was written > they did not have UX in mind and over time it seems that looser definitions > of agile and agile methods have been adopted to account for this. I also > think this points to the idea that every sprint yielding production ready > code may not actually yield the best product/software and that there is > room for improving or evolving the original thinking. Agree? > -Tom > > > > > On Mar 21, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Jonathan Baker-Bates < > jonathan at bakerbates.com> wrote: > > > > As a one-time Agile Alliance Certified Scrum Master, I would say that > > as long as both the pigs and the chickens all agree with the > > definition of "done", then that's fine. However, the default in scrum > > is always to produce production ready *code* (not wireframes or > > personas) at the end of every sprint, and from the very first sprint. > > See antipattern 16 (from the standard texts on the subject): > > > > > http://www.agileadvice.com/2011/12/05/referenceinformation/24-common-scrum-pitfalls-summarized/ > > > > ... and of course the endless debates that produces! > > > > https://www.scrum.org/Forums/aft/1273 > > > > But we digress here. > > > > @Tom: are we helping at all, or should we just can it? > > > > Jonathan > > > > > > > > > >> On 21 March 2015 at 22:21, magia3e at gmail.com wrote: > >> Scrum's Sprints don't have to focus on software. It can be used to > deliver anything that the Product Owner dedices is of value. A whole > Sprint's Increment may just be dedicated to learning with 'knowledge > products'. > >> > >> The idea behind 'production ready' is that what ever is created is > fully complete within the confines of the Sprint to what ever standard the > quality/satisfaction criteria (Definition of Done) specifies. > >> > >> Things that are not software have been delivered using Scrum > >> > >> * The SAAB Gripen fighter jet was made with Scrum. > >> > >> * The wikispeed car > >> > >> I've delivered UX consulting recommendations papers using Scrum whose > tram was only ux people. Each Increment consisted of 'production ready' > personas, tree structures and prototypes because that was the outcome > sought by the Product Owner by the client. These would be used much later > to help guide a web project. > >> > >> M > >> > >> > >> Sent from my HTC > >> > >> ----- Reply message ----- > >> From: "Skot Nelson" > >> To: "SIG Information Architecture" > >> Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? > >> Date: Sun, Mar 22, 2015 6:54 AM > >> > >> Yes. > >> > >> There notion that "every sprint results in production ready code" seems > antithetical to agile itself. > >> -- > >> Skot Nelson > >> http://www.penguinstorm.com/ > >> twitter. penguinstorm > >> > >>> On Mar 21, 2015, at 12:35, Thomas Donehower > wrote: > >>> > >>> print yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be > sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example > >> > >> ------------ > >> 2015 IA Summit > >> April 22-26, 2015 > >> Minneapolis, MN > >> ----- > >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > >> > >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > >> ________________________________________ > >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > >> ------------ > >> 2015 IA Summit > >> April 22-26, 2015 > >> Minneapolis, MN > >> ----- > >> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > >> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > >> > >> Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > >> ________________________________________ > >> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > >> Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > > > > ------------ > > 2015 IA Summit > > April 22-26, 2015 > > Minneapolis, MN > > ----- > > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > > ________________________________________ > > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > > ------------ > 2015 IA Summit > April 22-26, 2015 > Minneapolis, MN > ----- > When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible. > *Plain text, please; NO Attachments > > Searchable Archive at http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/ > ________________________________________ > Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org > Changes to subscription: http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l > From tdonehower at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 13:36:21 2015 From: tdonehower at gmail.com (Tom Donehower) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:36:21 -0700 Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX Wrap-up Message-ID: I received so many invaluable responses to my question about Agile and where UX and visual design fit in that I wanted to consolidate and share with the group. Thanks to all who shared. It it greatly appreciated. Looong but valuable list of replies follows: ================================== Adrian Howard wrote: > I?m trying to understand where these other roles and their deliverables fit in relation to a sprint from others past experiences. > > Shared experiences, war stories, and insight greatly appreciated. This is a few years old but still a relevant read http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html Unfortunately it?s really one of those it-depends questions I?m afraid. My advice would change quite a bit depending on the UX folk involved, the team, how good they are at actually doing Scrum, etc. For example at the more generative end (user research, interviewing, etc.) there is a strong overlap between UX and the Product Owner role in Scrum. So I?ve seen some teams work very effectively by having a UX person basically fill that role, or be a heavy support role for the actual PO. On the other hand many of the most effective agile teams I?ve worked with tend to embed UX in the team. The embedded role tends towards doing a lot more facilitating of UX work by the whole team, as well as doing hands-on work. If you can talk a bit more about any particular issues you?re having I might be able to give some more specific advice. For further reading have a Google around "Agile UX" & "Lean UX". The Lean UX stuff grew out of folk applying UXish things in Lean Startup context ? but it?s bigger than that now, being used in lots of non-startup contexts, and is a good fit for agile. Book wise I?d at least glance at these: * Agile User Experience Design, Diana Brown - This is great for UX folk wanting to grok agile more, and has several case studies on agile/ux teams. However, it doesn?t really dive deep into specific Agile UX practices. Good overview book. Especially for non-agile UX folk. * Agile Experience Design, Lindsay Ratcliffe & Marc McNeill - Much more of a toolbox of techniques/approaches book. The last third-ish of the book is basically a list of techniques. There?s some stuff I?d niggle with in here. Especially on some of the ways they talk about Agile - but it?s kinda hair-splitting stuff if you?re just getting started ;-) * User-Centered Agile Methods, Hugh Beyer ? This is more of a UX-person coming to Agile book, than an Agile folk adopting UX book (if you see what I mean). My personal approach is a little bit different from Hugh?s - but there?s definitely stuff worth thinking about here. If you?re dealing with a more traditional UCD group then this would be very approachable for them. * Lean UX, Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden - "The" book on Lean UX. Good introductory read on Lean UX, but can only do so much for the size of book. It?s also a bit light on some of the more generative user research approaches from my personal perspective. Still a useful read though. * UX for Lean Startups, Laura Klein - I think this fills some gaps in Jeff & Josh?s Lean UX book. Especially on the user research side. I also think it?s a *much* more approachable read to non-UX folk. Something that you can give to the rest of the team. * Lean Customer Development, Cindy Alvarez - Again, something very approachable to non-UX folk in language and tone. Like Jeff, Josh?s & Laura?s books it doesn?t spend a lot of time talking about integration with agile teams specifically, but the techniques fit in with agile approaches very well (indeed, agile approaches are required for this sort of UX approach to work well.). This is more relevant to PO folk. Just on the topic of usability testing, the stuff in Steve Krug?s "Rocket Surgery Made Easy" fits in really nicely with agile - and very approachable for non-UX folk. I?d also keep an eye on Tomer Sharon?s upcoming Lean User Research book from Rosenfeld http://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/lean-user-research-product-development/ Outside of books I?d also take a poke at these two online communities. * Balanced Team (balancedteam.org) - This community grew out of some UX and Agile folk trying to play nice together, but has a bit of a broader scope now. They do online/offline meetups, conferences, and the mailing list is as useful as respectful as this one is IMHO. I first heard about the stuff Janice Fraser et al were doing around Lean UX here, long before it was cool and sexy ;-) * https://groups.yahoo.com/groups/agile-usability/info - This is AFAIK the oldest community of folk that have been poking at Agile & UX. Almost no traffic now, but has a bunch of smart folk subscribed and some gold in the archives. To be honest I think plugging into the online communities around agile ux & lean ux will be more helpful to you than the books. Despite folk having been poking around this for more than ten years now, not enough of it has been written down. Also, while I don?t really actively curate these anymore you may find some of the links on https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:leanux https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agileux https://pinboard.in/u:adrianh/t:agile+ux of interest (although the relevance to the topic may, on occasion, need filtering through my brain first ;-) Oh yes. I may put out a newsletter on the topic occasionally that might be useful. Previous issues / subscription at http://is.gd/HNz5TN > Would also be curious if you've used a scrum tool you would recommend like > Pivotal Tracker or Axosoft OnTime. Have happily used Pivotal, Jira & Trello on projects. Have also worked on projects where they?ve been a terrible hinderance. They?re just tools. I tend towards starting with post-it notes or index cards, and move to digital tools if/when necessary. ============ Also a bit dated being from 2010, but here's my experience from the UX end of things: http://webtorque.org/scrum-didnt-work-for-us/ I have no doubt that Scrum works. It?s just that it works for other people. Dave Epstein wonderpup at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 20 (10 days ago) to SIG I find that it can and does work (we use it at my job) but it requires the entire organization to buy in - from how projects are defined and how they are rolled out. That's the hard part. Jonathan Baker-Bates via asis.org Mar 20 (10 days ago) to SIG My experience would indicate that you're correct. In larger organisations, I think scrum is probably doomed to fail because technical departments usually don't have the influence needed to push the agenda needed for scrum to work. For example, scrum is basically about increasing quality, and isn't necessarily about increasing speed (in fact projects often start slower while risks are flushed out at the start). However, we found we had to present scum as a way of accelerating development in order to get the CEO to agree to try it. My unease about that deception turned out to be justified. Thomas Donehower Mar 20 (10 days ago) to SIG Fantastic feedback! Thank you. Could I ask for each of you who have responded where did UX and visual design fit in with your scrum experience? Jonathan Baker-Bates via asis.org Mar 20 (10 days ago) to SIG We started by having UX and VD outside scrum in a "resource pool" because the devs went into scrum first. UX then allocated people to be part of each scrum team in "orthodox" scrum style. They all then worked in 2 or 3-week sprints, depending on which team they were in. Sometimes the devs did some UX work, but mostly didn't have the time as they were too busy working on stories the UX guys had worked up in previous sprints. The product owners (together with UX) had the capacity to generate complex stories that maxed out their developers very easily. Our UX guys were also not qualified to write production code of any kind, so there was no question of roles blurring there either. BTW we also ditched most of the exploratory customer research we used to do, and just went for gut feeling in the hope we could "tack" later on once things shipped and we could put working systems in front of users. I'd say that while that might have worked in theory, in practice we found it was scuppered by the extreme reluctance of the devs to throw away production code early on in the name of agility. I've also subsequently encountered this in other places (I currently work in "programmer anarchy" - Google will explain). While devs are fine with refactoring code on their own terms, it's much harder to convince them to refactor the UX because it might well involved very large technical changes. This may be a fundamental difference between the UX and development mindsets though. Not sure. While I'm on the subject of UX and VD in scrum, there is also an issue around the interpretation of "minimum viable product" when sizing stories. Very often, I've seen MVP being used as a cover for crappy UX. When this goes into production, it is quite rightly seen as such by stakeholders and becomes something that de-motivates, angers and frustrates many people. Perhaps that frustration is in fact necessary in the name of agility. If done well it means you won't waste time on the wrong things. But we just couldn't stomach the emotional reality of it. I should also point out that our "post-scrum" experience was rather better. The devs went into a form of scrumban, while UX and VD went into full kanban, albeit "throwing it over the wall" to the devs at the end. Kanban was much, much better for us. No sprints, estimation or ceremonies, we just concentrated on "waste". It was simple, and we could keep to the quality we wanted without slowing down. But I guess that's a story for another time. Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 20 (10 days ago) to SIG, ia-55 I used to be a UX practitioner, then I started using agile methods to deliver products (about 10 years ago). Now I'm an Agile Coach (for the last 6 years. Scrum, Lean and Kanban are my fav methods) *Where does UX / Visual Design fit into Scrum?* If you look at companies like eBay, Yahoo, Atlassian or even Spofity, the agile team does all the design (including user-experience and visual design) as well as development and testing. They plan together, they create an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint. Typically, as a result, there is some sort of UX skilled person as an integrated part of the team. This is also my preference for teaching teams to work in agile ways. I find this highly collaborative approach empowers the whole team to take control of the design themselves. That's not to say that they don't design within a set of standards or guidelines, though. E.g. within WCAG 2.0 AA, or a visual branding style guide. These standards form part of their Definition of Done. When scaling across large numbers of team, this 'guidance' becomes very handy. I find that the guidance that the SAFe guys are producing in the area of UX and scale quite useful. http://www.scaledagileframework.com/ux/ With one team that I'm coaching now, their UX person is using Axure to communicate interaction designs that are being implemented in the same Sprint. He just finds this is the best way to communicate the intention of the design to the rest of the team. If I'm doing UX work as a team member, I don't tend to use this approach, I tend to do a lot of whiteboard sessions with the rest of the team. This is a team separated across 3 cities and two timezones. The physical separation just makes things harder. We use the Quantum Entanglement pattern to compensate ( https://sites.google.com/a/scrumplop.org/published-patterns/distributed-scrum-pattern-language/quantum-entanglement ). *Deliverables?* We do story mapping to help rapidly create the Product Backlog and produce user stories rather than do extensive Spikes or Sprint 0 ( http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/10/07/jeff-patton-story-mapping-for-ux-practitioners-tying-agile-and-ux-together/ ) We don't do wireframes as deliverables, but use them to communicate and clarify design within the team. It also helps keep us focussed in terms of what was suggested. We do Pragmatic Personas ( http://www.stickyminds.com/article/pragmatic-personas) to help our user stories and the Increment be user-focussed. We do user journeys to help communicate where Epics, Features and User Stories fit into the user experience. We tend to update our documentation as we go as part of the Definition of Done. This means all systems, data architecture and UX doco get updated in an iterative fashion each Sprint as part of the Increment (production ready, working software). *Roles* In terms of roles, I find that a Senior UX person can be an excellent Scrum Product Owner as can a Senior BA. A person with good UX experience can also be a greate Scrum Master because it can help the team focus on slicing user stories to best represent a minimal viable (lovable) product (MVP) (not that MVP is not supposed to be just minimal but importantly viable ... to whom is often the issue. It's not minimal and viable for the team, it is for the end-user). Apart from Scrum's 3 roles (Scrum Master, Product Owner and Team), we don't have other formal roles. We don't even have a dev or test "lead" role let alone a "ux designer" role. *War Stories* I used to employ the parallel pattern from Lynn Miller ( http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/emerging_best_agile_ux_practice.html ). The UX people always seem to get ahead of their teams, waste always results (Lean would classify it as "over production"), and while there was coordination there was little deep discussion and collaboration. The former is important to note because you could interpret as an anti-pattern. The Sprint 0 required to get work going is also considered an anti-pattern by most scrum coaches and trainers. *Tools* I seem to end up using with Jira Agile or LeanKit. I don't find them useful or as adaptable as a physical Kanban board though. Jonathan Baker-Bates via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG "... they create an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint." I assume this only really works when the team members can all (or mostly) do the UX and VD work as well their other roles. By "UX work", I mean things like user research, prototyping, visual and interaction design, etc. This would mean that during such sprints, developers wouldn't be coding (other than perhaps looking at technical debt or bug fixes from the last sprint). The companies you mention also have mature products (or at least brands) already, which makes it less likely that the visual design, if not the interaction design, would go off the rails. If you're a startup, things would be rather different I would suppose. One of the major problems I've found with sprint-based activity is when team members can't (or won't) do UX work because they're working to deliver their part on stories from a previous sprint. I take it that you prevent this by making sure all stories are done in a single sprint, is that right? Does that not lead to endless discussions about how to cut stories down to fit though? Interesting also that you say that a UX person might be the product owner or scrum master (they're very different roles in orthodox scrum, of course). Assuming UX designers have the necessary seniority in the organisation to take the place of product manager, I would think having UX in that position would lead to large "sprint zeros", no? Thomas Donehower Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG Jonathan, You mention below "such sprints developers wouldn't be coding." Doesn't that go against the principe of each sprint yields production ready software? Are you saying there could be sprints that are devoted to just prototyping for example? Skot Nelson skot at penguinstorm.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG Yes. There notion that "every sprint results in production ready code" seems antithetical to agile itself. -- Skot Nelson http://www.penguinstorm.com/ twitter. penguinstorm Jonathan Baker-Bates via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG @Skot - I wouldn't go as far to say it was antithetical. The Agile Principles say the delivery of working software should be "frequent" and that it should be the "primary measure of progress". But I know what you mean. Agile should be free to do what's appropriate, really. @Thomas: As you can probably tell, there are some difficulties with scrum orthodoxy when it comes to UX :-) I think this is because agile methods (not just scrum but most others as well) attempt to solve problems that UX designers don't really have - or at last don't have to nearly the same extent as developers have. UX isn't reducible in the way software is, and certainly the "founding fathers" of scrum weren't thinking about UX when they formulated their manifesto - the term "customer" is the 1980's meaning: somebody who pays for the software to be built. Here's the famous "principles" page: http://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html (the background photo texture - QED). I think there's a world of difference between writing code that runs on computers, and creating things that run in people's heads. Because of this, I think it's unfair on both designers and developers to adopt the same methods. Were I to join a development team who had adopted scrum, I would not discourage them, but equally I would not work exclusively on their terms. It wouldn't be worth us all paying the the price for that later if I did. Skot Nelson skot at penguinstorm.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG Right. "Working" and "Production Ready" are totally different things. I always have the former, but it takes many sprints to get to the latter. magia3e at gmail.com magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG Scrum's Sprints don't have to focus on software. It can be used to deliver anything that the Product Owner dedices is of value. A whole Sprint's Increment may just be dedicated to learning with 'knowledge products'. The idea behind 'production ready' is that what ever is created is fully complete within the confines of the Sprint to what ever standard the quality/satisfaction criteria (Definition of Done) specifies. Things that are not software have been delivered using Scrum * The SAAB Gripen fighter jet was made with Scrum. * The wikispeed car I've delivered UX consulting recommendations papers using Scrum whose tram was only ux people. Each Increment consisted of 'production ready' personas, tree structures and prototypes because that was the outcome sought by the Product Owner by the client. These would be used much later to help guide a web project. M Sent from my HTC Jonathan Baker-Bates via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG As a one-time Agile Alliance Certified Scrum Master, I would say that as long as both the pigs and the chickens all agree with the definition of "done", then that's fine. However, the default in scrum is always to produce production ready *code* (not wireframes or personas) at the end of every sprint, and from the very first sprint. See antipattern 16 (from the standard texts on the subject): http://www.agileadvice.com/2011/12/05/referenceinformation/24-common-scrum-pitfalls-summarized/ ... and of course the endless debates that produces! https://www.scrum.org/Forums/aft/1273 But we digress here. @Tom: are we helping at all, or should we just can it? magia3e at gmail.com magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG Getting *all* the work needed to deliver a user story, from analysis and design thru to development and testing requires 'small' sized user stories so that the work fits into a single Sprint. The slicing method depends on a discussion between the Product Owner and the Team with the resultant slices just being smaller user stories. The order is negotiated between the Team and the PO. In a normal software project each user story will be a small feature-like element. Some of those slices will likely require more UX effort, some less, some none at all. But each slice will represent something that is of value to the Product Owner. A wireframe or prototype as the end result of a user story ia only likely to be 'of value' if it helps clarify some high risk unknown that will be looked at in a later Sprint. Architecture is some times tackled this way. Its often referred to as a Spike. The Team collectively decide how they will tackle their Sprint Goal and the Increment together. They also decide how much work they take on. But the Product Owner still has the final say in terms of whether their approach represents value. If everyone is going to sit around and do nothing until the UX work is complete that's obviously not of value The Scrum Master's role in this is to help the team work out a plan of attack and ensure that the team doesn't "waterfall their sprints" http://www.scaledagileframework.com/sprint-execution/ When UX work starts at the beginning of a Sprint -- prototyping, interaction design, wireframes etc - is going on, I often find other team members are doing things like: * Writing test scripts * Engaging business stakeholders, clients, end users face-to-face to clarify functional requirements * Doing cross a functional pairing with the UX guy to understand the interaction design and give feedback on areas where the technology is limited * Analyzing requirements for that user story * Doing technical design for that user story * Researching what the coding community says about the features in the user story * Doing the back end components of that user story Or * Delivering other user stories that have no real UX components The Scrum Master makes.sure there is a plan of attack each day at the Daily Scrum and ensures everyone is collaborating toward the team's goal. No one is idle. ----- Reply message ----- From: "Thomas Donehower" To: "SIG Information Architecture" Subject: [Sigia-l] Agile, Scrum and UX? > Jonathan > > > > magia3e at gmail.com magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG > "... they create an Increment together that is production ready each Sprint." > > I assume this only really works when the team members can all (or > mostly) do the UX and VD work as well their other roles. I typically have one UX expert in my team. A few front end and a few back end devs. A tester and a BA. In Scrum, I want team members who are willing to help each other and do what ever is needed to achieve the goal. This is why Sprint Planning for a 2 week Sprint is typically 4 hours in length -- 2 hours to hear *what* is required and 2 hours to figure out *how* to work best to deliver it. If the project is about building a website, then the focus of sprints will nearly always be features that are production ready. This means my UX guys are often thinkers who do a lot of their work in short bursts with whiteboards and then have conversations with other team members to discuss how to implement it. User research for the next few upcoming Sprints consume about 10% of the current sprint. User research then builds over Sprints to help inform the overall product design. System architects call this emergent design and have been working this way for a while. That said, all team members in Scrum spend up 10% of the Sprint looking at upcoming Sprints to get ideas about how they might tackle future work and clarify requirements. Its called Backlog Refinement. Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG References to "pigs and chickens" has long been since removed from the Scrum Guide :) But it is more the domain of the Product Owner, not the Team. That's not to say, though, that a discussion can't be had on the consequences of too many criteria in a DOD and that perhaps a team should be aiming for WCAG 2.0 A on a first pass to ensure that a specific user story fits into a Sprint. On 22 March 2015 at 09:36, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG There are lots of reasons why an agile adoption fails. http://www.versionone.com/pdf/2013-state-of-agile-survey.pdf It's not because Scrum doesn't work, it definitely does. 22% of failure is born out of a lack of understanding about agile and why it works the way it does. External cultural and political reasons comrprise about 30% of reasons why agile projects fail. Getting an experienced coach who knows how best to help an organisation with this change is key to success IMHO. On 21 March 2015 at 08:06, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG Many agile projects fail because of misconceptions about roles and responsibilities. A product manager is not the same as a Scrum Product Owner. The same goes for your client or your business stakeholder. They don't care about your agile process and so will break the rules of the process when it suits them. Most product managers I know are too high a level to be a Scrum Product Owner. But yes, the Product Owner gets to say what is produced and its sequence in the Sprints. That requires everyone to understand their role. It requires the Product Owner to work closely with other stakeholders including the product manager. This is why the PO role is very similar in its definition today as the way PMBoK define a PM's role. I never have a Sprint 0. It's an anti-pattern because it never looks like a Sprint. I often work in PRINCE2 environments that require lots of paperwork and setup before a project is allowed to commence, but I do all this work using Scrum. In my current web project it meant 4 Sprints of effort and at the 5th Sprint I onboarded the team -- 3 devs, 1 front end specialist, 1 ux, 1 web content writer. one of the devs is also the SM. I was the PO, but I coached my BA to take over from me as I've had to focus on 'other things'. Anyone can be the PO or the SM, but if you have no experience, training + coaching is essential to creating success. On 22 March 2015 at 03:54, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: > "... they create an Increment together that is production ready each > Sprint." > > [snip] Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG Scrum requires all User Stories are done in the Sprint. The Scrum Master's role is to reinforce this rule (they "own" the rules) and its process. Sprint Planning is designed to allow time to have just enough of a discussion to understand the size of a User Story, to break it down, and agree (as a baseline) on how the team will approach its delivery. If UX is required as part of the delivery of the User Story, I'd expect a discussion on how much is needed to create a usable, accessible, lovable result, not a minimal effort as part of an MVP. There are lots of ways to slice a story. Sometimes the team doesn't agree on how. Devs tend to want to separate out the front end from the backend, but this is an anti-pattern. I find having done user journeys or story mapping provides a useful user focussed perspective on slicing. You ultimately want to slice a story so that it represents the smallest unit of value to the user in a way that enables it to be delivered in 1-2 days (in its entirety) by the team. This may mean a page of many features gets broken down into smaller sets of features. If it's clear that there is still no agreement, the SM will park the discussion, the User Story will be put aside til next Sprint, and the team will spend time (Backlog Refinement) doing some analysis and draft design on the User Story until clarity is achieved. Sometimes, as a coach, I end up making the decision on how to best slice a User Story because a team typically has very little experience in knowing how best to do this. There are dozens of patterns to use, but knowing which is a good one to apply (there is never one "best" way) takes experience. Sometimes there might be a User Story left over from a previous Sprint that the team needs to work on, but if the rule of is that all User Stories must be finished in a single Sprint, then Sprint Planning and Backlog Refinement are mechanisms to ensure that all User Stories are sliced into small pieces. This is just application of Batch Theory. Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG @Tom: Some experiences to consider http://zenexmachina.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/ux-working-a-sprint-ahead-is-full-of-fail-work-as-a-single-team-instead/ Matt Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG Succeeding with Agile is one of my fav books from this perspective. http://www.succeedingwithagile.com/ Change doesn't always have to come from the top-down. Getting buy-in first from the CEO isn't needed in all companies. Getting coaching from a change agent with experience in leading this type of transformation does definitely help though :) Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG @Johnathan: I'm not sure why you feel unease about "accelerating development". There's a lot of good research that indicates when Scrum is done well, its focus on building the right thing and building the thing right, removes about 50% of the rework that is often associated with development projects. The continuous learning also supports removing waste (from a Lean sense ... a lot of my coaching of Scrum is heavily influenced by Lean) and so faster delivery of the right thing to users and clients. My own experience supports this view. Teams ability to deliver gets faster, more efficient, less buggy over as little as 3 months if they have focus and discipline in their Scrum practice. Creating focus and discipline is not as easy as it sounds though :) Scrum is like chess. The rules are simple, but to master it is hard. This is why Scrum Coaches exist :) Jonathan Baker-Bates via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG @Tom: So in Matt's link you may have an answer to your main question, I think :-) It would be very kind of you to report back on your experiences implementing UX in scrum. Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG I'd say that *delivery* is the measure of success. But you are right about working software vs value in terms of its delivery to end-users. This is where I see UX brings a much needed refocussing of how a team works to deliver that value. This is why I feel its important to think about Scrum's Increment in terms of Lean principles. That is, to create value (not just working software). On 22 March 2015 at 09:05, Jonathan Baker-Bates wrote: Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG @skot: if you're using Scrum that's not supposed to happen. I would be trying to understand and learn why "production ready" isn't working and then rectify it. If this is not happening, then fire your Scrum Master and get one that can help the team learn and fix this problem (continuous learning and improvement is the main way to gauge a Scrum Master's performance). Or, get a Scrum Coach to help identify why this is not occurring and to help the Scrum Master learn how to do this by himself. Thomas Donehower Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG Very helpful. I think the debate and exploration is worth it and encourage anyone to contribute to this discussion. I think the most interesting comment I've seen is the idea that when the agile manifesto was written they did not have UX in mind and over time it seems that looser definitions of agile and agile methods have been adopted to account for this. I also think this points to the idea that every sprint yielding production ready code may not actually yield the best product/software and that there is room for improving or evolving the original thinking. Agree? Matthew Hodgson magia3e at gmail.com via asis.org Mar 21 (9 days ago) to SIG At the anniversary of the signing of the agile manifesto, they discussed whether there was anything they would change. Overall, they agreed that it was still relevant, but the phrase "working software" is still something that some consider a barrier to its further adoption into disciplines other than software development. That said, much of "agile" is very old. Even Scrum was born out of product development and the article in the Harvard Business Review 'The New New Product Development Game". Now there are dozens of agile methods. Some continue to evolve over time. The important thing is to remember that agile isn't one thing. It's more important to ensure that the right method is selected for the right team, its environment and its needs. This is one reason I changed from a primary focus in my professional life from UX to Agile. There's a lot that the agile camp can learn from UX. I think the community is better from that mix of perspectives. From tdonehower at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 13:50:23 2015 From: tdonehower at gmail.com (Tom Donehower) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:50:23 -0700 Subject: [Sigia-l] Axure and Development Specification Message-ID: For any Axure fans out there who are helping to develop digital applications, could you please share how you use Axure to specify development requirements? Tips, tricks, personal experiences and war stories are greatly appreciated. I'll share with you my own experience. Initially I have tried to use the specification output from Axure, but just found it too inflexible and too unwieldy. I ended up importing the spec in Google Docs and then a colleague and I manually annotated the document, which was easier than specifying in Axure, but still isn't the method I would recommend. I have heard of others who specify a use case for every interaction and then publish the use case to the clickable prototype. I have not tried this but am curious what others think. I have also heard of others who create sticky notes as dynamic panels that can be turned off and on as needed in the clickable prototype to describe behaviors. What are your thoughts? In this day and age when building digital products, is a massive spec document still needed? Is just a clickable prototype enough with some annotation? Of course nothing replaces face to face communication and that will always be part of the development process, but what I'm trying to get a better sense of is the level of specification needed for distributed teams and the best form of that specification and how it's maintained specifically when using Axure. Best, -- -Tom From nicole.purviance at sjsu.edu Tue Mar 31 10:35:06 2015 From: nicole.purviance at sjsu.edu (Nicole Purviance) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 07:35:06 -0700 Subject: [Sigia-l] =?iso-8859-1?q?New_Textbook_Features_Contributions_by_R?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ecognized_Leaders_in_the_LIS_Field-Edited_by_SJSU_i?= =?iso-8859-1?q?School_Director?= Message-ID: <02c401d06bbf$e2c5e510$a851af30$@sjsu.edu> New Educational Materials on Information Services Edited by SJSU iSchool Director A new set of educational materials on the evolving information professions, edited by Dr. Sandra Hirsh, director of the School of Information at San Jose State University (SJSU), is now available. Information Services Today: An Introduction was designed as a multimedia package and combines an introductory text, support materials for instructors and students, and a series of webcasts. Available in print and ebook formats, Information Services Today addresses the transformation of libraries as information organizations, why these organizations are more important today than ever before, how technology is influencing the provision of information resources and services, and career opportunities. Published by Rowman & Littlefield, the textbook features contributions by recognized leaders in the field, including information school professors, library deans and directors, and experts from around the world. Editor Hirsh is a long-time educator and information professional who has worked in a variety of environments, from Silicon Valley high-tech companies to libraries and universities. An expert in user experience design, she is currently president of the Association for Information Science and Technology (ASIS&T). To learn more about Information Services Today and to access the companion series of free on-demand webcasts hosted by Library Journal, please visit the iSchool ?s website. About The San Jose State University (SJSU) School of Information prepares individuals for careers as information professionals. Graduates work in diverse areas of the information profession, such as user experience design, digital asset management, information architecture, electronic records management, information governance, digital preservation, and librarianship. The SJSU School of Information is a recognized leader in online education and received the Online Learning Consortium?s Outstanding Online Program award . For more information about the school, please visit: ischool.sjsu.edu . Contact: Nicole Purviance Director of Marketing and Communications School of Information San Jos? State University One Washington Square, Clark Hall 420A San Jos?, CA 95192-0029 Direct: 408-924-2465 nicole.purviance at sjsu.edu ischool.sjsu.edu