[Sigia-l] Re: Sigia-l Digest, Vol 3, Issue 16--Landing page vs no landing page

[Frank C.Siraguso]

Hello Hillary et al.
A landing page such as you describe it seems like a useless layer. When  
the user clicks "About Us," that is the page that should appear. If  
there are links to sub-sections in About Us, that's OK, but to have an  
introductory page "above" About Us is superfluous. In the same vein, I  
find it irritating when sites have top-level categories, such as "Areas  
Of Interest," that are not actually links. I realize that this would  
make them de facto landing pages, but it gives the category somewhere  
to "live." In the end, however, consistency is better than dogma.

Frank Siraguso
On Dec 15, 2004, at 11:00 AM, sigia-l-request at asis.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. landing page vs. no landing page (Hilary Marsh)
>    2. Rollover Navigation Submenus: Usable or not? (Jon Nakasone)
>    3. Re: landing page vs. no landing page (Andrew Boyd)
>    4. Re: landing page vs. no landing page (russ at bluechromedesign.com)
>    5. Re: landing page vs. no landing page (Hilary Marsh)
>    6. Re: landing page vs. no landing page (NMCCRAVE at rochester.rr.com)
>    7. Re: landing page vs. no landing page (Listera)
>    8. IA and Neuro Linguistic Programming? (hmax)
>    9. Unused features (Listera)
>   10. Re: Rollover Navigation Submenus: Usable or not? (bill pawlak)
>   11. FULL-TIME JOB: Voice User Interface Designer - NYC (Kate Acomb)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:01:24 -0600
> From: Hilary Marsh <hilary at contentcompany.biz>
> Subject: [Sigia-l] landing page vs. no landing page
> To: sigia-l at asis.org
> Message-ID: <p0610051cbde4f595b552@[10.232.35.239]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> I hope it's okay that I ask a pedantic question. I'm not an IA, but
> sometimes on small projects do IA work in addition to my usual
> content strategy and management services.
>
> I'm working on the website for a nonprofit organization. The
> organization's current site uses rollovers, so the user sees the
> top-level nav categories but can only go to the second-level content.
> (I.e., the top-level category is "areas of interest" and when you
> mouse over that, you see the areas -- arts, environment, etc. --
> "areas" is not a link but the things under it are.)
>
> One category -- "about us," of course -- has a page labeled
> "introduction," which is effectively the landing page for that
> section. It's the only section that has such a page. (And why is
> "about us" always the problem-child section, anyway? I've encountered
> this on almost every site I've worked on.)
>
> I usually try to make navigation consistent, in that sections either
> have landing pages -- which often requires writing static fluff
> content that no one reads or cares about -- or not have them -- which
> results in the occasional "introduction" page.
>
> How do you all feel about this? I look forward to your input.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Hilary
>
> --  
> Hilary Marsh
> president, content company inc
> plan  *  create  *  manage
> http://www.contentcompany.biz
> 708.217.3922
>
> Monthly newsletter with tips and tricks for keeping your website
> fresh, relevant and strategic -- subscribe at
> http://www.contentcompany.biz/subscribe.html.
>
> Join CM Professionals, the first international content management
> community of practice: http://www.cmprofessionals.org.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:14:46 -0800
> From: "Jon Nakasone" <jnakasone at cafepress.com>
> Subject: [Sigia-l] Rollover Navigation Submenus: Usable or not?
> To: <sigia-l at asis.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<A87EA24E23D129448118A73A43EDB7637DF3AA at exchange02.corp.cafepress.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> Forgive me if this topic has been previously discussed.
>
> I'm in the process of rapid prototyping a horizontal navigation using
> buttons with DHTML rollover submenus.  In the midst of this I was told
> that this approach is shown to be consistently unusable by many users.
> No elaboration was provided, other than this had been a recurring
> comment in numerous usability seminars at Marketing conferences (yes,
> Marketing conferences).
>
> Now I know what you're going to say and of course I plan to properly
> test variations of the navigation with our users, but I wanted to
> collect everyone's opinions and experience with this type of
> navigation as I've never heard a blanket statement placed on a UI
> feature made as insistently as this was.
>
> Many thanks,
> Jon
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 07:28:56 +1100
> From: Andrew Boyd <andrew_db at bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sigia-l] landing page vs. no landing page
> To: Hilary Marsh <hilary at contentcompany.biz>
> Cc: sigia-l at asis.org
> Message-ID: <41BF4D08.7050104 at bigpond.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Hi Hilary,
>
> I have used lead-in pages to 'consistentise' site structure quite  
> often.
> The text doesn't have to be fluff - it can be a valuable summary of the
> pages to come, such that the end user knows what is coming, and can
> decide whether it is worth their while clicking through or not. I don't
> want to start another heated definitional argument, but if IA isn't
> about getting end users to the information that they need (or think  
> they
> need), then what is its use? :)
>
> This works in much the same way as stem sentances on bulleted lists -
> they help the end user to retain context.
>
> I can't quote research on this, perhaps someone else can, this is just
> what has worked for me and the rest of the team over a period of years
> (regardless of navigation mechanism).
>
> Cheers, Andrew
>
> Hilary Marsh wrote:
>
>> I hope it's okay that I ask a pedantic question. I'm not an IA, but
>> sometimes on small projects do IA work in addition to my usual content
>> strategy and management services.
>>
>> I'm working on the website for a nonprofit organization. The
>> organization's current site uses rollovers, so the user sees the
>> top-level nav categories but can only go to the second-level content.
>> (I.e., the top-level category is "areas of interest" and when you
>> mouse over that, you see the areas -- arts, environment, etc. --
>> "areas" is not a link but the things under it are.)
>>
>> One category -- "about us," of course -- has a page labeled
>> "introduction," which is effectively the landing page for that
>> section. It's the only section that has such a page. (And why is
>> "about us" always the problem-child section, anyway? I've encountered
>> this on almost every site I've worked on.)
>>
>> I usually try to make navigation consistent, in that sections either
>> have landing pages -- which often requires writing static fluff
>> content that no one reads or cares about -- or not have them -- which
>> results in the occasional "introduction" page.
>>
>> How do you all feel about this? I look forward to your input.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Hilary
>>
>
>
> -- 
> _________________________________________
> Andrew Boyd
> Business Development Manager
> Daily Basis P/L
> Phone 02 6282 9797 or 02 4885 1357
> Mobile 0412 641 074
> Email andrew at dailybasis.com.au
> or andrew_db at bigpond.com
> _________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:30:44 -0500 (EST)
> From: russ at bluechromedesign.com
> Subject: Re: [Sigia-l] landing page vs. no landing page
> To: "Hilary Marsh" <hilary at contentcompany.biz>
> Cc: sigia-l at asis.org
> Message-ID: <4526.136.182.2.222.1103052644.squirrel at 136.182.2.222>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi Hilary,
>
> I think you've probably already touched on your answer--or at least a
> direction in which your answer could go.
>
>> One category -- "about us," of course -- has a page labeled
>> "introduction," which is effectively the landing page for that
>> section. It's the only section that has such a page. (And why is
>> "about us" always the problem-child section, anyway? I've encountered
>> this on almost every site I've worked on.)
>>
>> I usually try to make navigation consistent, in that sections either
>> have landing pages -- which often requires writing static fluff
>> content that no one reads or cares about -- or not have them -- which
>> results in the occasional "introduction" page.
>
> To me, part of this will depends upon how you intend to build this
> navigation--that is, will the "top" layer (about us) be a link or will
> only items below it?  If only items below it, then an "introduction"
> sounds feasible, however, if you're making the top layer a link
> consistently throughout, then the Introduction may best be served as a
> page title for that top layer's page.
>
> I realize you may not have the approach fully nailed down yet, but you  
> can
> at least take a look at your options from here and decide which way  
> works
> best for the particular site and the content that's being presented.
>
> Best,
>
> Russ
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:43:18 -0600
> From: Hilary Marsh <hilary at contentcompany.biz>
> Subject: Re: [Sigia-l] landing page vs. no landing page
> To: russ at bluechromedesign.com
> Cc: sigia-l at asis.org
> Message-ID: <p06100521bde50ec80dc9@[10.232.35.239]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> thanks so much, Russ! It's helpful to get this validation, although I
> was wondering if anyone had some best practices in this area that I
> could refer to when making recommendations to the client.
>
> Best,
>
> Hilary
>
>
>
> At 2:30 PM -0500 12/14/04, russ at bluechromedesign.com wrote:
>> Hi Hilary,
>>
>> I think you've probably already touched on your answer--or at least a
>> direction in which your answer could go.
>>
>>>  One category -- "about us," of course -- has a page labeled
>>>  "introduction," which is effectively the landing page for that
>>>  section. It's the only section that has such a page. (And why is
>>>  "about us" always the problem-child section, anyway? I've  
>>> encountered
>>>  this on almost every site I've worked on.)
>>>
>>>  I usually try to make navigation consistent, in that sections either
>>>  have landing pages -- which often requires writing static fluff
>>>  content that no one reads or cares about -- or not have them --  
>>> which
>>>  results in the occasional "introduction" page.
>>
>> To me, part of this will depends upon how you intend to build this
>> navigation--that is, will the "top" layer (about us) be a link or will
>> only items below it?  If only items below it, then an "introduction"
>> sounds feasible, however, if you're making the top layer a link
>> consistently throughout, then the Introduction may best be served as a
>> page title for that top layer's page.
>>
>> I realize you may not have the approach fully nailed down yet, but  
>> you can
>> at least take a look at your options from here and decide which way  
>> works
>> best for the particular site and the content that's being presented.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Russ
>
>
> -- 
> Hilary Marsh
> president, content company inc
> plan  *  create  *  manage
> http://www.contentcompany.biz
> 708.217.3922
>
> Monthly newsletter with tips and tricks for keeping your website
> fresh, relevant and strategic -- subscribe at
> http://www.contentcompany.biz/subscribe.html.
>
> Join CM Professionals, the first international content management
> community of practice: http://www.cmprofessionals.org.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:29:27 -0500
> From: NMCCRAVE at rochester.rr.com
> Subject: Re: [Sigia-l] landing page vs. no landing page
> To: Hilary Marsh <hilary at contentcompany.biz>
> Cc: sigia-l at asis.org
> Message-ID: <274fad274da2.274da2274fad at nyroc.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Hilary-
>
> Something else to consider is that if a user has JavaScript turned  
> off, they would not see the rollover navigation (I'm assuming this is  
> some sort of DHTML).  So, offering a landing page for each section is  
> the only way for these folks to reach subpages aside from any  
> additional homepage links.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Nancy McCrave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hilary Marsh <hilary at contentcompany.biz>
> Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 3:01 pm
> Subject: [Sigia-l] landing page vs. no landing page
>
>> I hope it's okay that I ask a pedantic question. I'm not an IA,
>> but
>> sometimes on small projects do IA work in addition to my usual
>> content strategy and management services.
>>
>> I'm working on the website for a nonprofit organization. The
>> organization's current site uses rollovers, so the user sees the
>> top-level nav categories but can only go to the second-level
>> content.
>> (I.e., the top-level category is "areas of interest" and when you
>> mouse over that, you see the areas -- arts, environment, etc. --
>> "areas" is not a link but the things under it are.)
>>
>> One category -- "about us," of course -- has a page labeled
>> "introduction," which is effectively the landing page for that
>> section. It's the only section that has such a page. (And why is
>> "about us" always the problem-child section, anyway? I've
>> encountered
>> this on almost every site I've worked on.)
>>
>> I usually try to make navigation consistent, in that sections
>> either
>> have landing pages -- which often requires writing static fluff
>> content that no one reads or cares about -- or not have them --
>> which
>> results in the occasional "introduction" page.
>>
>> How do you all feel about this? I look forward to your input.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Hilary
>>
>> -- 
>> Hilary Marsh
>> president, content company inc
>> plan  *  create  *  manage
>> http://www.contentcompany.biz
>> 708.217.3922
>>
>> Monthly newsletter with tips and tricks for keeping your website
>> fresh, relevant and strategic -- subscribe at
>> http://www.contentcompany.biz/subscribe.html.
>>
>> Join CM Professionals, the first international content management
>> community of practice: http://www.cmprofessionals.org.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------
>> When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible.
>> *Plain text, please; NO Attachments
>>
>> Searchable list archive:   http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/
>> ________________________________________
>> Sigia-l mailing list -- post to: Sigia-l at asis.org
>> Changes to subscription:
>> http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/sigia-l
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:47:26 -0500
> From: Listera <listera at rcn.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sigia-l] landing page vs. no landing page
> To: SIGIA-L <sigia-l at asis.org>
> Message-ID: <BDE4D7AE.6D6D%listera at rcn.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hilary Marsh:
>
>> best practices...
>
> Design is not about showing more, it's about showing less.
>
> If a design element or an approach is not solving a problem that you  
> can
> identify, it probably doesn't belong there.
>
> Ziya
> Nullius in Verba
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:45:27 -0800 (PST)
> From: hmax <hmax at metamax.com>
> Subject: [Sigia-l] IA and Neuro Linguistic Programming?
> To: sigia-l at asis.org
> Message-ID: <20041215004527.19919.qmail at web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> As a bit of an IA old timer, I thought it might be
> useful to share the fact that NLP heavily informed the
> information architecture behind Virtual Vineyards,
> where I deployed the first secure shopping cart in
> 1994.
>
> As a Master Practitioner, it became obvious that NLP
> had an extraordinary amount to offer IA. Ultimately,
> this helped me to create a small-m methodology which
> in the pre-Cooperian days I used to refer to as
> "Outcome-Oriented Design".
>
> This design method employed a number of key NLP
> features; namely, the outcome and as-if frames, the
> NLP presuppositions, analog marking, and embedded
> directives among others. To this day, I've yet to run
> across a more powerful set of tools for designing
> complex information systems.
>
> ..
> Harry Max
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:19:58 -0500
> From: Listera <listera at rcn.com>
> Subject: [Sigia-l] Unused features
> To: SIGIA-L <sigia-l at asis.org>
> Message-ID: <BDE4FB6E.6D81%listera at rcn.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I'm sure some of you read the story a while back where somebody high  
> up at
> Microsoft admitted that most of the features in Office and/or other MS
> products never get used and that Microsoft gets a lot of support calls
> asking for features which users don't realize are already in the  
> product. I
> think this was just after MS introduced one of the latest versions of  
> the
> Office. Anyone got a URL for that story? Or something similar?
>
> Ziya
> Nullius in Verba
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:20:23 -0800 (PST)
> From: bill pawlak <billpawlak at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sigia-l] Rollover Navigation Submenus: Usable or not?
> To: Jon Nakasone <jnakasone at cafepress.com>, sigia-l at asis.org
> Message-ID: <20041215032023.92713.qmail at web61001.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>> I'm in the process of rapid prototyping a horizontal navigation using
>> buttons with DHTML rollover submenus.  In the midst of this I was
>> told
>> that this approach is shown to be consistently unusable by many
>> users.
>
> This might be a good start from a research perspective:
>
> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/51/menu.htm
>
> bill
>
>
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good.
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:57:30 -0500
> From: Kate Acomb <kate at kateacomb.com>
> Subject: [Sigia-l] FULL-TIME JOB: Voice User Interface Designer - NYC
> To: <sigia-l at asis.org>
> Message-ID: <BDE5BB0A.A0D5%kate at kateacomb.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> This is a great opportunity for a top-notch IA to transition to  
> IVR/Voice UI
> design. Please respond quickly, we need to hire someone by the end of  
> the
> year. The job is at Qwest, a leading phone company.
>
> Please respond to - Emily Koroloff :: 303-896-3085 ::
> emily.koroloff at qwest.com
>
> Senior Voice User Interface Designer
> The Senior Voice User Interface Designer owns the user experience of
> Interactive Voice Response (IVR) applications ­ both ASR (automated  
> speech
> recognition) and DTMF (touch tone).  The Senior User Interface  
> Designer is
> responsible for ensuring that applications satisfy the user¹s  
> expectations
> for utility and ease of use, as well as the client¹s business and  
> branding
> requirements.
>
> Qwest will consider a seasoned information architect for this  
> position, if
> you are enthusiastic about learning the field of telephony  
> applications and
> speech recognition. Some Web work would also be required.
>
> Responsibilities:
>
> - Consult with clients on functional and branding requirements, design  
> call
> flows, write prompts and User Interface specification documents,  
> develop
> grammars, coach voice talents, conduct both formal and informal  
> usability
> tests and perform heuristic evaluations.
>
> - Consult with customers on VUI and ASR concepts, including call flows,
> grammar development, voice talent coaching, application tuning, and  
> problem
> analysis.
>
> - Assume a leadership role in devising and implementing innovative
> approaches to voice application design and development.
>
> - Contribute to the development of a world class voice user interface  
> design
> practice
>
> Requirements:
> * Flexibility in thought processes and in interactions with teammates;  
> Team
> player with excellent initiative and follow-through.
> * Experience in a professional services environment highly desirable.
> * Proven capacity to manage time allocated among multiple projects
> * Mastery of the principles of effective IVR UI design
> * Bachelors Degree (Masters desirable) in Cognitive Science, Human  
> Factors,
> Industrial Psychology, Computer Science, Design, or related field -- or
> equivalent experience required.
> * Minimum of 5 years experience in User Interface Design and  
> development ­
> at least 2 in IVR User Interface design.
> * Experience working with Nuance, SpeechWorks/ Scansoft, Call  
> Interactive,
> Edify, Tell Me, IntervoiceBrite or other leaders in the field of speech
> recognition.
> * Understanding of vXML, speech recognition and the telephony  
> underpinnings
> of IVR applications.
> * Basic business understanding of call centers.
> * Excellent communication skills (both written and verbal), including  
> the
> ability to be both assertive and persuasive with clients and  
> colleagues.
> * Must have a deep understanding of branding in the IVR environment,
> including persona development, audio logos, and other non-verbal  
> messaging.
> * Ability to represent Qwest and the importance of effective UI design  
> on
> sales calls.
> * Must be an expert in Visio or other software to demonstrate call  
> flows.
> Must be comfortable with the Microsoft Office suite.
> * Audio production experience highly desirable.
> * Must have a portfolio of sample call flows, user prompts, and user
> interface specifications documents
>
>  Please respond to - Emily Koroloff :: 303-896-3085 ::
> emily.koroloff at qwest.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sigia-l mailing list
> Sigia-l at asis.org
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>
>
> End of Sigia-l Digest, Vol 3, Issue 16
> **************************************
>